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  #21  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
With respect I will disagree; my father was a metallurgist....specialty steel industry including high-tech (non-copper) wire, think extreme aerospace and medical applications. Purity beyond 99.99% has been able to be quantified/measured for quite a long time now.
I'd love to see a statistically valid measurement systems analysis on that.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:45 PM
JMD JMD is offline
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I am aware of what the standards are but that doesn't stop these companies from giving these "standards" whatever creative title they decide to use. Using the Industry Standard naming would not have the same "ring" to it.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:52 PM
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I am aware of what the standards are but that doesn't stop these companies from giving these "standards" whatever creative title they decide to use. Using the Industry Standard naming would not have the same "ring" to it.
That may be the case, but Tony and I were just trying to answer Mouse's question regarding why Shunyata Research does not provide a copper purity specification greater than 99.99%. That's because purity greater than 99.99% does not exist in the copper materials industry.

Given that Shunyata Research is, above and beyond anything else, very much a science and data-driven company, and not given by nature to "hyperbole", they provide facts as to the purity of the copper for the products they manufacture.

Contrast this to Synergistic Research's "quantum tunneling" of cables. Talk about 'yer audio industry hyperbole, WTF does that mean???
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Last edited by Puma Cat; 11-20-2017 at 07:00 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:56 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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So are we saying that Mexcel, Hitachi Special Metals Division and a variety of other reputable sources are lying about being able to produce 6N, 7N and 8N copper wire? These claims transcend the audio industry...

There is purity in the copper sourcing materials industry and then there is purity of the formulations and extrusions (e.g. wires). Too different things...
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
So are we saying that Mexcel, Hitachi Special Metals Division and a variety of other reputable sources are lying about being able to produce 6N, 7N and 8N copper wire? These claims transcend the audio industry...

There is purity in the copper sourcing materials industry and then there is purity of the formulations and extrusions (e.g. wires). Too different things...
If they can, I'd love to see the scientific or technical literature documenting this specification and that those companies have performed a stastically valid measurement systems analysis that demonstrating that they have sufficient measurement system precision to measure to 6, 7 or 8N copper wire.

I'm happy to be convinced with data and statistically valid analysis.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:50 PM
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Here is a technical analysis from Hitachi Metals Ltd. detailing some of the characteristics and comparisons between their high purity copper wire in 4N HiFC, 6N OFC, and 6N Cu. I'm not sure this will satisfy the desired level of technical specification but it does show some measurable differences between these various purity levels of copper conductors, hope this helps! I find it interesting to see the metallurgical grain structure differences which are also documented.
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:40 PM
Msegal Msegal is offline
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Copper cables oxygen free state is only one measurement or state at one given time. It’s oxygen content will change with simple exposure to the air. Unless one keeps the cables in a vacuum I would expect the copper to slowly oxidize. The outer skin of the copper is most vulnerable but this is where the signal tends to concentrate.

Other important considerations include copper casting, extruding or other methods of drawing the cable. Conductor geometry, gauge, dialectics, insulation, interfaces and conduction delay compensation are equally important.

If I listened to a cable that sounded awesome in my system and it had 99.0 , 99.99 or 99.999999 I would still purchase that cable and enjoy it.

I currently use Shunyata with wonderful results but I have heard great results from Audioquest, Tara Labs and many other great companies.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio bill View Post
Here is a technical analysis from Hitachi Metals Ltd. detailing some of the characteristics and comparisons between their high purity copper wire in 4N HiFC, 6N OFC, and 6N Cu. I'm not sure this will satisfy the desired level of technical specification but it does show some measurable differences between these various purity levels of copper conductors, hope this helps! I find it interesting to see the metallurgical grain structure differences which are also documented.
Thanks! I look forward to reading it!
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:08 PM
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Copper purity is one of many factors that affect the sound quality, and the other part is dielectric, wire construction, shielding, soldering...

Thanks
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:11 AM
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+1 good post.

I think this is similar to the discussion of THD vs. frequency measurements of audio equipment.

Will a 0.005% amplifier sound better than one that measures 0.05%?

Maybe, maybe not. There are too many other factors involved. The same is true with wire.

Tom
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