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  #81  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
Specifically, seems like the order is:

Good : 44.1khz tap with 75 ohm bnc
Better : 10mhz tap with 75 ohm bnc
Best: 10mhz tap with 50 ohm bnc

From my extensive reading, and discussion with Mark (scaudiophile), that seems like the order of preference.

Of course, it is probably very system dependent, and I will experiment. I don't have any 50 ohm cable (yet)...
Esoteric would definitely agree with your concept of 'Best' above and further they state 10 mHz is the ultimate way to drive their equipment as evidenced by the introduction of the Grandioso G1 all 10 mHz clock.

In my own system after testing many variants of word-clock and master clocking, the best sounding setup to me is all 10 mHz with a 50-ohm BNC when the tap dictates 50-ohm. Do NOT mix impedance (the 'better' example above) as that does affect sound-staging and imaging accuracy...I know there are a lot of opinions floating around about this but late last year through Spring of this year, a number of people did a proper blind test mixing all the variants of impedance on the tap, cable impedance, etc...and it turns out the differences are not only perceivable, they are substantial. See my other post this morning on this topic....
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  #82  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
Ivan knows best.

I left on 10mhz for a few days and didn't listen to it.

Tonight... Wow! Sounds incredible. I couldn't really hear a difference on the first few days. Now I can switch the clock in and out and there's a clear difference.

I'm hearing a bigger soundstage. More detail. More dynamics.

Everyone says to leave this thing on 24/7 but it worries me... I live in an area prone to power outages. I had a quick chat with Dan and he helped me pick out an inexpensive UPS for just my clock, nothing else. I'll leave it running all the time and not need to worry.

For the record, I tried a bunch of different clock settings and even changed my normal k01x filters... But after Ivan said what he did above, I set it back to my favorite filter and upsample options and 10mhz clock. I'm keeping it this way for a while. Sounds incredible, and I finally think I'm in the SOTA digital realm!
Congratulations again on the new clock! Another vote for 10 mHz being 'the' best approach to clocking based upon my testing and listening over many years and quite a few clocks...

Any clock with an oven-stabilized oscillator of any kind, either Quartz (OCXO) or Rubidium must (my opinion) be left on 24/7. As it is, these clocks take at least 10-30 minutes to truly reach thermal equilibrium and initial good performance levels. Based upon my listening and owning the Esoteric G-0s (Rb type), G-03x (OCXO type) and now on my 2nd owned Cybershaft (all OCXO) with testing of 3 additional Cybershaft units (1 PROD and 2 pre-PROD prototypes, all OCXO), it's even more than that. Once the clock's OCXO reaches initial thermal equilibrium, it continues to mature for a few hours to where it will definitely sound better later that day and the next until it hits its true steady-state best behavior. When I power on my system for some time now, I will always turn on power conditioners and then a few minutes later, the clock and then walk away until well after the OCXO oven monitor's LED on the front lights up and the clock can get moving towards it equilibrium. When I am a bit more patient, I leave the clock run for 1-2 hours before I power up anything else and let the D-02 and P-02 achieve master-sync. When I do, I notice that the components achieve sync in 1-3 seconds versus a longer period (10-15 seconds) when I am more impatient and only wait for the oven monitor to light up.

When its all said and done though, it's all about the sound; my system will sound better many hours after the clock is on and everything is giving time to recharge and stabilize.

In the studio realm or in high-tech video or microwave/other communications infrastructures where master clocking is used extensively, they virtually never turn the clocks off. Please bear that in mind...

My 2 cents...

There was another question here or on another thread regarding using of a GPS-disciplined oscillator instead of another master clock technology. GPSDO is useful when you have a much lower precision OCXO or other mechanism; then GPSDO or other 1pps master-sync regulators are of use. For my money, I would not strap a GPSDO implementation to an Esoteric G-02X or G-01 or other word clock; I'd go for a full-blown 10 mHz OCXO-based approach with the lowest phase noise possible (and therefore lowest jitter) to provide a true 10 mHz master. There are several great choices in the industry for this,....

With respect to the Grandioso G1 which is all 10 mHz to begin with, I don't think it is necessary to have an external 10 mHz master clock. It would be useful to see the actual phase noise and Allen Variance data for the G1 (and G-01) because PPM/PPB is the red herring in the clock industry and it matters little if the phase noise is high at 1, 10 and 100, but that notwithstanding, you would probably need one hell of a 10 mHz master clock to truly make an argument for strapping a master clock onto what is already itself a perfectly good master implementation (G1).

Again my 2 cents....
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  #83  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:40 AM
brodricj brodricj is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post

...There was another question here or on another thread regarding using of a GPS-disciplined oscillator instead of another master clock technology. GPSDO is useful when you have a much lower precision OCXO or other mechanism; then GPSDO or other 1pps master-sync regulators are of use. For my money, I would not strap a GPSDO implementation to an Esoteric G-02X or G-01 or other word clock; I'd go for a full-blown 10 mHz OCXO-based approach with the lowest phase noise possible (and therefore lowest jitter) to provide a true 10 mHz master. There are several great choices in the industry for this,....
...
That was my questions, thanks. Regarding the full-blown 10 Mhz OCXO-based approach, what are the "several great choices" that might take a G02X to G01X performance level, but cheaper than a G01X.
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  #84  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
That was my questions, thanks. Regarding the full-blown 10 Mhz OCXO-based approach, what are the "several great choices" that might take a G02X to G01X performance level, but cheaper than a G01X.
Here is what I have found have resulted in improvements for the Esoteric and Cybershaft clocks I have owned;

- a good quality power cord (Elrod, Shunyata, Isotek Elite or OPTIMUM, WW)

- HRS DPX Damping Plate

- Stillpoint UltraSS footers with Ultra Bases

- impedance matched tees and terminators on a great 50ohm cable (Eosteric Mexcel or Shunyata Alpha or Sigmas)

- Composite Audio CF2010 platforms
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  #85  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
Here is what I have found have resulted in improvements for the Esoteric and Cybershaft clocks I have owned;

- a good quality power cord (Elrod, Shunyata, Isotek Elite or OPTIMUM, WW)

- HRS DPX Damping Plate

- Stillpoint UltraSS footers with Ultra Bases

- impedance matched tees and terminators on a great 50ohm cable (Eosteric Mexcel or Shunyata Alpha or Sigmas)

- Composite Audio CF2010 platforms
Hi Mark, did you actually compare alpha 50-ohm vs sigma 50-ohm? I wonder how much difference between them? I'm thinking of upgrading to either Platinum WW 75-ohm or some Shunyata variant.

My G-02x outputs 10mhz on the 75-ohm tap (as well as fixed taps at 50-ohm), so it's unclear to me whether there is any advantage to using a 50-ohm at all. Seems like not.
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  #86  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:55 AM
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Marc -- ask yourself this question -- why does the manufacturer take the time to stencil on the rear of your K-01X the output impedance? There has to be a reason besides looking pretty.

Ordering couple buckets --

Best Sir,

Bob
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Amps: Dan D'Agostino Progression Monos on 20A dedicated breakers.
Preamp: Dan D'Agostino Progression Preamp.
Digital Source: dCS Paganini 4 stack (Transport/DAC/Clock/Upsampler).
Analogue Preamp: Off for upgrade -- VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Tyr 2 P/C and Tyr 2 XLR's.
Analogue Sources: SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Valhalla TA cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote.
Vibration Control: TT on HRS M3X 1921 shelf, Stillpoint Ultra SS under dCS Transport, Stillpoint Ultra-Mini's under dCS 3 Stack. HRS NA100's under Ansuz D8 Power Distribution Bar.
Speakers: Wilson Audio Alexia in Argento Silver/Black grills.
Power Cables: 3 each 2.5M Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps & preamp. Nordost Valhalla V1 on dCS Transport.
Power Distribution Bar: Ansuz Mainz Diamond 8(D8) fed by Ansuz Ceramic.
Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2).
Speaker Cables: 3M Nordost Odin Supreme Reference with 4 Nordost Sort Lifts.
Signal Cables: Nordost Tyr 2 XLR's 2M on dCS Paganini and Mono amps. Nordost Valhalla 2's 110 ohm Digital AES/EBU on dCS internal connections and Crystal Cable Firewire 1394 cables on dCS.
Clock Cables: 3 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital
Headphones: Selling - 6M Cardas Clear HP cables. Vintage Koss Pro IV AA.
Tube Test Gear: Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A & current SOTA MaxiMatcher Power and Preamp tube test sets.
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  #87  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage_tube View Post
Marc -- ask yourself this question -- why does the manufacturer take the time to stencil on the rear of your K-01X the output impedance? There has to be a reason besides looking pretty.

Ordering couple buckets --

Best Sir,

Bob
Bob...There is are 2 banks of taps, one is 10-mhz 50-ohm fixed. The other is variable (includes 10mhz) 75-ohm. So by using the 10mhz on the variable tap, it should be fine using 75-ohm.

Besides, the jack on the K-01x is 75-ohm, not 50.
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Last edited by 2fastdriving; 10-26-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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  #88  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:10 AM
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I got it now --misread the post.

Best Sir,

Bob
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Amps: Dan D'Agostino Progression Monos on 20A dedicated breakers.
Preamp: Dan D'Agostino Progression Preamp.
Digital Source: dCS Paganini 4 stack (Transport/DAC/Clock/Upsampler).
Analogue Preamp: Off for upgrade -- VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Tyr 2 P/C and Tyr 2 XLR's.
Analogue Sources: SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Valhalla TA cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote.
Vibration Control: TT on HRS M3X 1921 shelf, Stillpoint Ultra SS under dCS Transport, Stillpoint Ultra-Mini's under dCS 3 Stack. HRS NA100's under Ansuz D8 Power Distribution Bar.
Speakers: Wilson Audio Alexia in Argento Silver/Black grills.
Power Cables: 3 each 2.5M Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps & preamp. Nordost Valhalla V1 on dCS Transport.
Power Distribution Bar: Ansuz Mainz Diamond 8(D8) fed by Ansuz Ceramic.
Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2).
Speaker Cables: 3M Nordost Odin Supreme Reference with 4 Nordost Sort Lifts.
Signal Cables: Nordost Tyr 2 XLR's 2M on dCS Paganini and Mono amps. Nordost Valhalla 2's 110 ohm Digital AES/EBU on dCS internal connections and Crystal Cable Firewire 1394 cables on dCS.
Clock Cables: 3 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital
Headphones: Selling - 6M Cardas Clear HP cables. Vintage Koss Pro IV AA.
Tube Test Gear: Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A & current SOTA MaxiMatcher Power and Preamp tube test sets.
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  #89  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
Hi Mark, did you actually compare alpha 50-ohm vs sigma 50-ohm? I wonder how much difference between them? I'm thinking of upgrading to either Platinum WW 75-ohm or some Shunyata variant.

My G-02x outputs 10mhz on the 75-ohm tap (as well as fixed taps at 50-ohm), so it's unclear to me whether there is any advantage to using a 50-ohm at all. Seems like not.
I was fortunate enough to test earlier prototypes close to Alpha level at 50 and 75 ohm. I found them to be extremely good and liked them more than my Kubala-Sosna EMOTION 75-ohm and 50-ohm cables and at least equal to WW 75-ohm that I tried. As I did not test now-shipping Alpha level, I'll leave the commentary there. I find that the SIGMA level CLOCK50s I have as well as the Esoteric-Mexcel 8N-A2000s are the finest 50-ohm cables I've ever used.

I cannot advise as to whether you should utilize the 75-ohm or 50-ohm taps on the G-02X if you want 10 mHz as I've not tested that clock except to say you must match the impedance the boxes you clock will expect; that seems to be 75-ohm with the K-01X.
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  #90  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage_tube View Post
Marc -- ask yourself this question -- why does the manufacturer take the time to stencil on the rear of your K-01X the output impedance? There has to be a reason besides looking pretty.

Ordering couple buckets --

Best Sir,

Bob
Bob,

Big +1 on this...matching impedance of cable to input and output on the circuit does make a difference and I've heard it...
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