Has anybody compared the MC275 to the Audio Research VS60 or VSi60 ? ...

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by joeinid

I like the fact that the MC275 has balanced inputs. Neither the VS60 nor the VSi60 has them. Balanced inputs makes integrating the MC275 into my system easier. I already have a nice preamp with the C2300. Also, if I ever feel the need for more power, I could always add a second amp.

I would imagine the MC275 being a little warmer which is what I want. Tube rolling will change the flavor, for the better.

I think what adds to the confusion is there are a couple of joes around here

There is a school of thought that says that if the components themselves are not fully balanced, using balanced cables might not be the right thing to do since, internally, they will have to go through a bal->unbal and/or viceversa.

Balance cables are still the better choice for long cable runs since they help with noise cancellation.

My experience with the C220 (unbal) and MC501 (bal) is that it sounded a little smoother with regular (unbalanced) cables. The best thing to do is try out both ways - for a few days - and see what you like best. But I would not make a decision based on balanced inputs UNLESS both components are also balanced.

Alberto

[Mctwins]

Hi
What school is that?

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by Mctwins

Hi
What school is that?

Circuit topology and system grounding will typically determine whether single ended or balanced connections sound better. I find many systems much better single ended and some better balanced. But I pay very careful attention to a system's ground plane so my single ended results might not be the norm for plug and play. Also as Alberto pointed out, how the "balanced" mode is accomplished matters.

The advantage of balanced is none of that matters for common mode rejection.

[Mctwins]

Hi
If you use McIntosh stuff all the way thru you don't have to worry about the choice between the bal and unbal or the fullybalanced units and not fullybalanced units. You will have better headroom if you use the Balanced XLR connectors compared to the RCA. Then it means I can't run my MCD500 witch is fullybalanced unit with the rest of my Mcgear witch is not fully balanced unit. I don't buy this!

I trust the McIntosh school.
Thanks

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by Mctwins

Hi
If you use McIntosh stuff all the way thru you don't have to worry about the choice between the bal and unbal or the fullybalanced units and not fullybalanced units. You will have better headroom if you use the Balanced XLR connectors compared to the RCA. Then it means I can't run my MCD500 witch is fullybalanced unit with the rest of my Mcgear witch is not fully balanced unit. I don't buy this!

I trust the McIntosh school.
Thanks

It does not mean you can't run your MCD500 with the rest of your gear. It is obvious that you can. I am not sure about the headroom comment. If the entire system if fully balanced you get a few more dbs of headroom, but that's lost when you go through the bal->unbal conversion.

The only way to convert a balanced signal to an unbalanced one (and vice-versa)- is to introduce an extra amplifier stage (usually an op amp) or a transformer in the circuit. If you have balanced CD to unbalanced preamp to balanced amp the signal will go through a few extra stages of processing.

The school of thought I mentioned is the one that says: The less you mess with the signal the better off you are. Or the "straight wire with gain is best" school.

As you may know, I am not a fan of that school. I like things like tone controls in my system - talk about messing around with the signal. My school of thought is "trust your ears and your follow your preferences."

Having said that it's worth understanding the hows and whys of balanced vs. unbalanced. The extra dbs of headroom may, or may not, make a difference (probably not for most listening material and typical listening level) the noise rejection definitely makes a difference for long cable runs or for cable in very noisy EMF environments. The back of an audio rack may qualify as a noisy EMF environment justifying the use of balanced connections despite the drawback of adding a few stages of amplification or transformers.

Alberto

PS The following link is a technical analysis of a DarTZeel preamp (me want one!) where the measurements show the impact of the balanced conversion (achieved via transformers in this case.)

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Alberto

PS The following link is a technical analysis of a DarTZeel preamp (me want one!) where the measurements show the impact of the balanced conversion (achieved via transformers in this case.)

Hi Alberto,

Love the new avatar. I don't see the link...

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Alberto,

Love the new avatar. I don't see the link...

Oops, here's the link I referred to:

darTZeel NHB-18NS preamplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by Alberto

Alberto

PS The following link is a technical analysis of a DarTZeel preamp (me want one!) where the measurements show the impact of the balanced conversion (achieved via transformers in this case.)

Swiss guys know about grounding.