800/802 Diamonds

[drgalexo]

I'm try to decide between the 800 and 802 Diamonds and would like to know if anyone feels it is necessary to use a subwoofer with their 800 series speakers? Also, if you use a sub, do you use one or two and which manufacture do you have? This is not for a home theater set up, only 2 channel audio. B & W recommends the 802's when the 800's would be too much speaker for the room but don't really define room size, any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Rod#S]

I recently went through that delimmea just under a year ago and a year or two before that as well.

I never thought I could afford/justify the 800's so went with 802's a few years ago as my mains. My system is for 50% home theater, 50% music (stereo and multi-channel) so I also had other speakers to add and I needed that money for my center at the time, the HTM2D2. When it came time to get the surrounds last Spring I had been considering a 2nd pair of 802's or the 803's. I never had a chance to hear the 803's but have heard the 804s at my dealers on many occasions and really liked them. The probem for me was the Marlan head, I like the design of the 800/802 much more than the 803/804 plus there is the benefits the Marlan head brings to the midrange so I struggled for months on that decision i.e. on the price difference, on the benefits (if any) of having 802's as surrounds and would it really matter, etc., etc.

I ultimately decided on the 802's but then got the what if bug about the 800's. I did not have an opportunity to hear the 800 so like you I posted on forums to solicit advice. I nervously went with the 800's. So the 802's were moved to surround duty. What I found was that in the same position as the 802's, either crossed over at the same frequency to the subs or running full range there was an improvement in the mids. I'm not sure if this is from the better crossover in the 800s or the fact that the lower midrange is coming from two 10" drivers vs two 8" drivers or a combination of the two but there is a difference. Is it $10k better, well that's debatable I suppose and would be a different answer depending on who you ask. I liked what I heard so decided it was worth it.

The other thing I noticed is the improved bass. Now on paper the 800 and 802 are incredibly close in low level frequency response and I didn't expect much difference there but the 800's seem to me to go noticeably lower and have more authority. Not sure why, maybe it's because of the sound of the dual 10" drivers vs the dual 8" ones makes me think the 800's have more control over the low range, I honestly don't know. I never could have compared the 802's to being subwoofer like in the low end but that's an argument that could be made for the 800's. The 800's for me seem to be a more balanced speaker and give more warmth or smoothness to the music that the 802's seem to lack a bit but without being able to hear them setup in the same spot that's a conclusion I don't think one would necessairly come to. But we all hear things differently.

As for whether to use a sub or not on either I guess that's a personal choice. I know people, even here on the forums I think that do not use a sub with their 802's or 800's and some that do. I run mine with and without depending on my mood. I have two subs for bass management, two older Paradigm Servo 15a's

Also I have a mid sized room at best, probably better classified as small and personally don't find the 800's overpower the room so again I think there is a lot of personal preference that goes into whether a speaker works or doesn't work in the room. A strong argument could be made that for my room I could have just went with 805's all around plus the subs.

Hope that helps some.

[Indytown]

Originally Posted by Rod#S

I recently went through that delimmea just under a year ago and a year or two before that as well.

I never thought I could afford/justify the 800's so went with 802's a few years ago as my mains. My system is for 50% home theater, 50% music (stereo and multi-channel) so I also had other speakers to add and I needed that money for my center at the time, the HTM2D2. When it came time to get the surrounds last Spring I had been considering a 2nd pair of 802's or the 803's. I never had a chance to hear the 803's but have heard the 804s at my dealers on many occasions and really liked them. The probem for me was the Marlan head, I like the design of the 800/802 much more than the 803/804 plus there is the benefits the Marlan head brings to the midrange so I struggled for months on that decision i.e. on the price difference, on the benefits (if any) of having 802's as surrounds and would it really matter, etc., etc.

I ultimately decided on the 802's but then got the what if bug about the 800's. I did not have an opportunity to hear the 800 so like you I posted on forums to solicit advice. I nervously went with the 800's. So the 802's were moved to surround duty. What I found was that in the same position as the 802's, either crossed over at the same frequency to the subs or running full range there was an improvement in the mids. I'm not sure if this is from the better crossover in the 800s or the fact that the lower midrange is coming from two 10" drivers vs two 8" drivers or a combination of the two but there is a difference. Is it $10k better, well that's debatable I suppose and would be a different answer depending on who you ask. I liked what I heard so decided it was worth it.

The other thing I noticed is the improved bass. Now on paper the 800 and 802 are incredibly close in low level frequency response and I didn't expect much difference there but the 800's seem to me to go noticeably lower and have more authority. Not sure why, maybe it's because of the sound of the dual 10" drivers vs the dual 8" ones makes me think the 800's have more control over the low range, I honestly don't know. I never could have compared the 802's to being subwoofer like in the low end but that's an argument that could be made for the 800's. The 800's for me seem to be a more balanced speaker and give more warmth or smoothness to the music that the 802's seem to lack a bit but without being able to hear them setup in the same spot that's a conclusion I don't think one would necessairly come to. But we all hear things differently.

As for whether to use a sub or not on either I guess that's a personal choice. I know people, even here on the forums I think that do not use a sub with their 802's or 800's and some that do. I run mine with and without depending on my mood. I have two subs for bass management, two older Paradigm Servo 15a's

Also I have a mid sized room at best, probably better classified as small and personally don't find the 800's overpower the room so again I think there is a lot of personal preference that goes into whether a speaker works or doesn't work in the room. A strong argument could be made that for my room I could have just went with 805's all around plus the subs.

Hope that helps some.

what finish did you choose for your 800/802 Diamonds

[Rod#S]

Rosenut

[drgalexo]

Thanks for your thoughts Rod, I wish I could compare them directly and will attempt to do so when in Florida soon. Could you give me a rough idea of the size of your room, my dealer thinks the 802's with 2 subs is a better set up than the 800's alone.

[drgalexo]

By adding the 2 subs the price difference becomes less significant.

[Rod#S]

Originally Posted by drgalexo

Thanks for your thoughts Rod, I wish I could compare them directly and will attempt to do so when in Florida soon. Could you give me a rough idea of the size of your room, my dealer thinks the 802's with 2 subs is a better set up than the 800's alone.

The room is 14.8' x 15.8' but is not enclosed so that's the box dimensions where the gear sits. It opens in two areas, a 7.5' opening to the left, alongside my left 800 and a 4' opening in the back left corner which runs alongside my left 802.

I have a thread in the Member System Forum section with pictures. The room is certainly crammed

[Rod#S]

Originally Posted by drgalexo

By adding the 2 subs the price difference becomes less significant.

Very good point.

[drgalexo]

Rod, I finally got to see photos of your system. Wow, you certainly have filled the room with amazing equipment. Your comments have been very helpful. My home theater is in another room and this one will be strictly for music so I think I will start with the 800 diamonds and if neccessary I can always add subs, but as you suggest perhaps the bass will be sufficient, even the 802's would probably be adequate. I sent a question like my first post to B & W and their response was that the 800's were designed to blossom in a room around 500 sqft, and to use one of their other speakers if under around 350sqft. which has just added to my confusion. Seeing your setup, and many of the other systems in the members section leads me to believe that many of us don't have an ideal room set up or configuration but have been bitten by the bug. I have two more questions which maybe don't belong here but I'm not sure where to post them. How does one become a member/senior member? Also I see some banned members and I'm not sure what causes that but I certainly don't want to go there. So, I'm glad to hear that you feel for strictly music the 800 diamonds will most likely be adequate without a subwoffer as I am trying to avoid that addition esthetically, but I'm sure time will change that too.
Gary

[redm]

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