The evolution of the Nautilus line?

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by thughes

... and the 803D

Sorry I missed that.
Corrected my list accordingly.

At the same time, there was also a version with alu tweeter 803S.

Martin

[thughes]

At the same time, there was also a version with alu tweeter 803S

I had forgotten about the 803S.

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by meltemi

B&W production years:
....
1993 original Nautilus

* 2nd generation 800 series (post Nautilus):

1998 - 2004 Nautilus 800 series (800N series, alu tweeter)

2005 - 2009 800 D series (800 D1 series, Diamond tweeters for 800, 801, 802 and 803)

2010 - 2015 800 Diamond series (800 D2 series, Diamond tweeters for whole range, no more 801)

* 3rd generation 800 series (50th anniversary):

2015 - current 800 D3 series (completely new construction, 800 D3 appeared 2016 as 50th anniversary model)

Martin

Martin..... Considering that we just added a new HTM3S to our B&W lineup, I wanted to ask you...Based on your chronological listing of 800-type B&W speakers, I was wondering if the internals of the 800 speakers was completely changed after 2004, which you've described (above) as the the final year of the "Nautilus 800 series (with Aluminum tweeter)?

Here I was thinking that all of 800-series B&W speakers were based on the Nautilus internal design...was I wrong?

I'm sure it seems like a silly question to those in the know, but you have to admit that even the new 800D3s -- which my wife and I had demoed for us less than a week ago -- look very similar to our older 802Ns. Yes, the cabinet no longer has a "flat" face, but the tear drop midrange is still there and the tweeter, be it "diamond" or "aluminum," look pretty similar (overall).

Is it simply a case of B&W changing the overall design of the largest part of the speaker, the cabinet, and sticking with the tried-and-true tear drop midrange and "Mister Microphone" tubular tweeters?

Your description of the "3rd generation 800 series (50th anniversary)" indicates that the 800D3 was completely redesigned in later 2015...so please clue me in on why I should no longer refer to the the B&W 800 series as "Nautilus" speakers?

[RaceCarDriver]

The Nautilus term hasn’t been used in the 800 series since 2004, however some still mention it and many understand.

Nautilus 800 models as mentioned were 1998-2004. Often abbreviated to N800, N801, N802 etc.

When Diamond series came out in 2005, Nautilus term was dropped even though they looked nearly identical. Many people during that time called them Nautilus 800 Diamonds. However the correct model numbers were 800D, 801D, 802D etc.

When the very first series of Diamonds came out, it didn’t extend to the whole line. I am trying to remember but I believe 803 on down we’re still aluminum tweeters? Including the surrounds, centers etc. So those models received an S after the number to indicate Standard (no diamond) there was no 802S for example, as the 802, 801, 800 and very large HTM1D all received Diamond tweeters. The HTM3S (near identical to the Nautilus HTM1) was left in the line to match the smaller 800 series speakers. There was a smaller center the HTM4S? Think this went in line with the smaller NHTM2 from the previous Gen. Center model numbers were all over the place from 2005-2015 IMO.

When the updated Diamond series came out in 2010, the D was dropped in favor of the full word, Diamond. It unofficially was referred to as the “D2” because it was an upgrade to the “D” however the correct model numbers were 800 Diamond, 802 Diamond etc. This series still looked very much like the 1998 Nautilus shape, however drivers were updated, the cabinet was updated slightly as the grill mounting configuration changed from pegs with holes in the cabinet to magnets and updated speaker rings. The “D2” is the most refined image to the original 1998 Nautilus line.

The D3 that came out in 2015 is a complete rework. Only the tweeter and rear binding posts remain. While very distinctive and resembles the original Nautilus 800 series, they are quite different. The cabinet is reverse wrapped, crossovers moved from the bottom plinth to the rear spine. The correct model numbers are 800 D3, 802 D3, 803 D3 etc.

1993: Nautilus (the big shell)
1998: Nautilus 800 (B&W logo)
2002: Signature 800 (B&W logo)
2005: 800D (B&W logo)
2010: 800 Diamond (Bowers & Wilkins logo)
2015/2016: 800 D3 (Bowers & Wilkins logo)

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver

The Nautilus term hasn’t been used in the 800 series since 2004, however some still mention it and many understand.

Nautilus 800 models as mentioned were 1998-2004. Often abbreviated to N800, N801, N802 etc.

When Diamond series came out in 2005, Nautilus term was dropped even though they looked nearly identical. Many people during that time called them Nautilus 800 Diamonds. However the correct model numbers were 800D, 801D, 802D etc.

When the very first series of Diamonds came out, it didn’t extend to the whole line. I am trying to remember but I believe 803 on down we’re still aluminum tweeters? Including the surrounds, centers etc. So those models received an S after the number to indicate Standard (no diamond) there was no 802S for example, as the 802, 801, 800 and very large HTM1D all received Diamond tweeters. The HTM3S (near identical to the Nautilus HTM1) was left in the line to match the smaller 800 series speakers. There was a smaller center the HTM4S? Think this went in line with the smaller NHTM2 from the previous Gen. Center model numbers were all over the place from 2005-2015 IMO.

When the updated Diamond series came out in 2010, the D was dropped in favor of the full word, Diamond. It unofficially was referred to as the “D2” because it was an upgrade to the “D” however the correct model numbers were 800 Diamond, 802 Diamond etc. This series still looked very much like the 1998 Nautilus shape, however drivers were updated, the cabinet was updated slightly as the grill mounting configuration changed from pegs with holes in the cabinet to magnets and updated speaker rings. The “D2” is the most refined image to the original 1998 Nautilus line.

The D3 that came out in 2015 is a complete rework. Only the tweeter and rear binding posts remain. While very distinctive and resembles the original Nautilus 800 series, they are quite different. The cabinet is reverse wrapped, crossovers moved from the bottom plinth to the rear spine. The correct model numbers are 800 D3, 802 D3, 803 D3 etc.

1993: Nautilus (the big shell)
1998: Nautilus 800 (B&W logo)
2002: Signature 800 (B&W logo)
2005: 800D (B&W logo)
2010: 800 Diamond (Bowers & Wilkins logo)
2015/2016: 800 D3 (Bowers & Wilkins logo)

A very thorough and detailed response, RaceCarDriver. Okay, so we have sounded like couple of dorks talking to those youngsters at the two Magnolia centers we visited recently...well, at least they were polite by not openly laughing at us.

Referring to your words (above)...when you say that the newer (2015-present) B&Ws were "reverse wrapped," is that why the woofers protrude from the cabinet so obviously? This also leads me to believe that the back of the 80X D speakers must be flat, correct? If this is correct, then I can see why it would make sense to move the crossover circuitry from the bottom of the speaker to the rear...

I just watched a B&W video from 2012 showing the construction of 800-series Diamond speakers. Although they still retained the flat front, like the N802s and N805s we presently enjoy, they clearly wanted to highlight certain features more, which is in evidence by the change in the logo itself. I was wondering about that, though...Did B&W have a big organizational change in 2010? After our recent B&W auditions, both my wife and I remarked on the logo change. Neither one of us really like it...but, hey, we're also the nerds who've been referring to every B&W 80X speaker we've seen lately as a "Nautilus" speaker, right?

By the way, your words about the grill design change are truly poignant to us. Why? Because we just discovered that one of our round N802 midrange grills has a broken peg tip. Any idea if those round grills might still be available?

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE 800 DIAMOND VIDEO I'M REFERRING TO HEREIN

[obiwankenobi]

In anticipation of the D4s, perhaps in the next few years, what do you think can be improved on the D3s? Perhaps more bass for 803D3?

Hope they dont change much on the design. I like the way it looks now.

[RaceCarDriver]

I miss the leather under the midrange head of the 800s. I feel that part of the new series is the one part that sticks out. A sharp corner all around the speaker where everything else is smooth.

[thughes]

I am trying to remember but I believe 803 on down we’re still aluminum tweeters?

There were S and D versions of the 803. I have the 803D (version 1).

[Art Vandelay]

As the 800 series progressed from pre-Nautilus to Nautilus, D, and Diamond, the 3-way crossover became increasingly simplified but employed higher quality components, peaking with the 800D2 model, which uses the expensive Mundorf SGO's throughout the mid & tweeter networks and individual circuit boards for the tweeter and FST mid components. Housing the crossover in the large aluminium plinth definitely had its advantages.

Pre-Nautilus, B&W used 4th order mid-tweeter, moving to 2nd / 3rd order with the 800 Nautilus and 2nd / 1st order since the original 800D series.

So where to with the 800D4? It's difficult to imagine how they can substantially progress the design, but I still expect evolution rather than a complete redesign of the 3.2 driver / 3x enclosure design philosophy that's characterized the 800 series from inception some 40 years ago.

Most of the (technical) criticism leveled at the 800 diamond series by armchair critics and self-proclaimed experts on social media has focused on the slightly uneven frequency response around the mid-tweeter crossover region, both on and off tweeter axis, so it's possible that B&W engineers will attempt to create a speaker that performs better from a measurements perspective. However, it's also true to say that the slightly laid back "B&W sound" relies on a slight off-axis power dip in the vocal presence region (1-3kHz), and what some people refer to as the "BBC dip" was found to produce the most natural playback of orchestral music, so there's no doubt that this aspect of measured performance has always been deliberate

I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but anticipation is already building as D4 day looms ever closer.

[70sMac]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

As the 800 series progressed from pre-Nautilus to Nautilus, D, and Diamond, the 3-way crossover became increasingly simplified but employed higher quality components, peaking with the 800D2 model, which uses the expensive Mundorf SGO's throughout the mid & tweeter networks and individual circuit boards for the tweeter and FST mid components. Housing the crossover in the large aluminium plinth definitely had its advantages.

Pre-Nautilus, B&W used 4th order mid-tweeter, moving to 2nd / 3rd order with the 800 Nautilus and 2nd / 1st order since the original 800D series.

So where to with the 800D4? It's difficult to imagine how they can substantially progress the design, but I still expect evolution rather than a complete redesign of the 3.2 driver / 3x enclosure design philosophy that's characterized the 800 series from inception some 40 years ago.

Most of the (technical) criticism leveled at the 800 diamond series by armchair critics and self-proclaimed experts on social media has focused on the slightly uneven frequency response around the mid-tweeter crossover region, both on and off tweeter axis, so it's possible that B&W engineers will attempt to create a speaker that performs better from a measurements perspective. However, it's also true to say that the slightly laid back "B&W sound" relies on a slight off-axis power dip in the vocal presence region (1-3kHz), and what some people refer to as the "BBC dip" was found to produce the most natural playback of orchestral music, so there's no doubt that this aspect of measured performance has always been deliberate

I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but anticipation is already building as D4 day looms ever closer.

Thanks for adding your thoughts about the evolution of the Nautilus line to the thread. Having read everyone's input, I [at least] know now that the "Nautilus" part of the 800-series was dropped at a certain point. Here we were visiting B&W sound rooms asking questions about "those Nautilus D3s." Well, at least the kids auditioning the B&Ws didn't laugh right in our faces.

Oy, Art, are you an architect, by any chance, mate?