Accuphase DG58 Necessity or Novelty

[Mattia]

Hi Martin,
thank you.

I write only now because I was waiting for an answer to the question I asked to Mr. Pacula of highfidelity.pl, who I thank.

He referred my question ("Does the DG-58 apply a calibration curve to the AM-48 mic input?") to Mr. Suzuki of Accuphase, that answered:

"DG-58 does not compensate for AM-48 anything.
But you should use DG-58 with AM-48. This is because, input-impedance and voltage-gain of DG-58 microphone input are matched with AM-48."

So now I am fully satisfied: with the DG-58 the AM-48 is the best mic (and the only one ).

[bds]

Hi Mattia,

the pre 2420 are the new in-coming?? (with the player too or?)
-> Players like dp 78 suonamo damned well.!


44.1 and multiple are the exact conversion (96/192 ... are digital arrangements?!?!)

Your room can work with the 802di and too with the 800di.(with all the work of insulation / acoustic treatment!!)

Personally I will go with the 802di. (but it's my taste)

Nti(Liechtenstein) make very great product. A "small" brand with great resources.



Ciao Omar

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

Mr. Suzuki of Accuphase, that answered:
"DG-58 does not compensate for AM-48 anything.
But you should use DG-58 with AM-48. This is because, input-impedance and voltage-gain of DG-58 microphone input are matched with AM-48."

No compensation, but most probably meticulous selection of the mic, as they do with other electronic parts they build into their products.

Input-impedance, voltage-gain (sensitivity) and powering of the mic remain Accuphase's secret.

Martin

[Mattia]

bds

The C-2420 and DP-75 have just arrived. The DP-75 is still "old style" 16x PCM 1702 DA converters, limited to max 48Khz, but I found it beautiful in Red Book CD presentation. It was not really planned, but it replaced DP-510.

The C-2420 in my system seems totally "absent". Really I could not tell if it is present or I go DG-58 directly to P-700.
Wich for me is good news since what I basically needed was a neat volume control

(Maybe, just maybe the 2420 adds a *little* noise that you can only ear in a totally silent room, with no signal input and putting your ear almost in the midrange cone).

AAVA is really something I must admit: even at very low volume levels the channel balance is spot on, so are others parameters. The C-275 I had was all over the place at low levels (but I think it was a bit faulty unit).

As for speakers, I am waiting for the final five RPG Modex Plates, then I will be free to go where I want (or maybe stick a little bit more with the old S3).


Martin

Sadly I forgot to ask technical info about how the DG-58 drives the mic or if the DG-58 also corrects in time-domain.
But I doubt Mr. Suzuki would have answered to those questions



P.S. Unrelated to the topic, but anyone has news about nvp? He used to be around here often, but not anymore.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

bds

The C-2420 and DP-75 have just arrived. The DP-75 is still "old style" 16x PCM 1702 DA converters, limited to max 48Khz, but I found it beautiful in Red Book CD presentation. It was not really planned, but it replaced DP-510.

Honestly I'm a little bit surprized about your "step back" from DP-510 to DP-75 because I would consider Accuphase's own drive in the DP-510 an advantage over the Sony made drive in the DP-75.
Do you use the DG-58 as DAC or the DP-75?

Originally Posted by Mattia

The C-2420 in my system seems totally "absent". Really I could not tell if it is present or I go DG-58 directly to P-700.
Wich for me is good news since what I basically needed was a neat volume control

(Maybe, just maybe the 2420 adds a *little* noise that you can only ear in a totally silent room, with no signal input and putting your ear almost in the midrange cone).

AAVA is really something I must admit: even at very low volume levels the channel balance is spot on, so are others parameters. The C-275 I had was all over the place at low levels (but I think it was a bit faulty unit).

Yep. That's the big advantage of AAVA over more conventional volume controls, faulty or not.

Originally Posted by Mattia

As for speakers, I am waiting for the final five RPG Modex Plates, then I will be free to go where I want (or maybe stick a little bit more with the old S3).

I'd suggest you try out some B&W 800 series at home (even an 803 would give you an idea about B&W's progress in the last 20 years, i.e. since the S3).
With the electronics you already got together, I fear that the S3 more and more becomes the limiting factor.

Originally Posted by Mattia

Martin

Sadly I forgot to ask technical info about how the DG-58 drives the mic or if the DG-58 also corrects in time-domain.
But I doubt Mr. Suzuki would have answered to those questions

You may unfortunately be right.

Martin

[Mattia]

Honestly I'm a little bit surprized about your "step back" from DP-510 to DP-75 because I would consider Accuphase's own drive in the DP-510 an advantage over the Sony made drive in the DP-75.
Do you use the DG-58 as DAC or the DP-75?

I now use the DP-75 as a DAC because personally I even prefer it to the DG-58 for 16/44.1 material (lately I'm finding myself using Tidal more and more: wonderful to do "music travels" from artist to artist and find new music I like). I must say that I liked the DP-75 presentation so much that now I'm searching for a DC-91 or even a DC-81L with his wonderful discrete DAC to try

I'd suggest you try out some B&W 800 series at home

In the end, I think it is the road to follow. After the electronics and room treatment complete, now is the time (well, "now" is when I have new budget to dedicate to audio ).

What I need for my audio room is a speaker that emits as low as possible from his cabinet.

I say this because just for fun I tried my Klipsch Heresy III (normally connected to the "vintage" Accuphase system in the dining room where I find them not bad) and they were incredibly bad in the audio room. I tried positioning them in various spot, changing the placement of the RPG panels... nothing! Cancellations in various frequencies, strange riverberations... headache after 30 minutes . I think that is because the Heresy emits also from the cabinet, that is not braced and massive as the S3, and that causes A LOT of problem in my smallish and perfectly symmetric audio room (even if acoustically treated and even with DG-58 magic).

But I think that a 800 or 802 Diamond is equally or better (most likely better) than S3 regarding the "silent" cabinet/chassis, right?

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

I must say that I liked the DP-75 presentation so much that now I'm searching for a DC-91 or even a DC-81L with his wonderful discrete DAC to try

My DP-80L/DC-81L is going to be put up for sale (has been replaced by DP-900/DC-901).

Originally Posted by Mattia

What I need for my audio room is a speaker that emits as low as possible from his cabinet.

But I think that a 800 or 802 Diamond is equally or better (most likely better) than S3 regarding the "silent" cabinet/chassis, right?

Definitely right. I have much less low frequency problems with the 800 Diamond now than I had with the S3 in the same room.
I even had to boost some low frequency with the DG-58 to get a more balanced sound on the 800.

Martin

[Mattia]

Martin when you decide to sell, let me know... if the price is right...

By the way, have you tried the old 80L/81L combo on the new system? What difference you find in general between them and the 900/901 combo regarding CD material?

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

By the way, have you tried the old 80L/81L combo on the new system? What difference you find in general between them and the 900/901 combo regarding CD material?

No I didn't.

The only comparison I did was in 2002, against my professional dCS 974 DD and dCS 954 DAC converting in true 16bit/44kHz and carefully adjusting the outputs to the same level.

The main difference was the way the units placed the instruments in the room.
The placement with the dCS was slightly more forward but the contours of the instruments were much more precisely shaped.
With the DC-81L, I had the impression of a moon with a halo, i.e. instruments less precisely placed and shaped, a bit like a photo, that is not 100% sharp.
I could not hear any significant differences regarding the sonic character of instruments and voices. (I then had the S3 and a Tact Room Correction System 2.0).

Since then I was using the DP-80L as the drive and the dCS 974 / dCS 954 as upsampler (up to DSD) and DAC.

IMHO the DP-700 was not transparent enough to outperform the dCS gear. Only the the DP-900 / DC901 combo (and may be the DP-720) came about eye level with the dCS units.

BTW the DC-81L internally has a 20bit converter but only allows 16bits at the inputs. Feeding it 24bits causes truncation (the 8 least significant bits are cut off) which sounds really awful.

Martin

[nvp]

Originally Posted by Mattia

P.S. Unrelated to the topic, but anyone has news about nvp? He used to be around here often, but not anymore.

Hi Mattia, it was a very busy period at work these last few months and I did not have much time for internet. I'm still alive and kicking! Thanks for noticing.

Originally Posted by Mattia

bds

The C-2420 and DP-75 have just arrived. The DP-75 is still "old style" 16x PCM 1702 DA converters, limited to max 48Khz, but I found it beautiful in Red Book CD presentation. It was not really planned, but it replaced DP-510.

I can't say I am surprised to hear you prefer the DP-75 over the DP-510. As far as I know, entry level Accuphase units rarely outclass older Accuphase top-tier units. I should say, however, that I am a bit surprised that you have bought the C-2420 pre-amp. I am saying this because you seem to prefer the sound of the old Accuphase units which compared to the newer units sound fuller.

Originally Posted by Mattia

The C-2420 in my system seems totally "absent". Really I could not tell if it is present or I go DG-58 directly to P-700. Wich for me is good news since what I basically needed was a neat volume control

As I have reported previously, I have had similar experiences with the C-2410 pre connected between the DP-600 player and the A-65. However, my conclusion was very different than yours. That is, I have concluded that in the respective system C-2410 is redundant. Of course, unlike you I had the possibility to adjust the volume via the DP-600.