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Old 03-10-2017, 07:14 PM
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GregGale GregGale is offline
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Default 802D3 versus Focal Sopra 3

I have been very interested in the new Focal Sopra series when I was searching for an upgrade to my 802D2's and heard the Sopra 2 demonstration which sounded excellent.

Once I heard the 802D3's I ultimately decided to go that direction.

I just read the review by Kal on the Focal Sopra 3 in Stereophile that I received today and was disappointed there was no reference at all to how the Sopra 3 compared to his reference 802D3.


Kal I am curious if you could comment on the sound quality differences between the two products? Typically when I have seen other reviews there are usually comments in regards to how they compared to their references, so it helps people to understand the differences.

I have already made my decision on the 802D3's but Kal I would really love to hear your perspective on the two.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:08 PM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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I think my published comments on the Sopra3 make clear distinctions between it and the 802D3s which were, of course, my reference.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
I think my published comments on the Sopra3 make clear distinctions between it and the 802D3s which were, of course, my reference.
Thanks Kal for your comments. A couple of comments you made which I did not understand. You said on SACD you had to play the track louder than the CD of the same recording to have it achieve "the ideal loudness". What does this have to do with the Sopra 3? Wouldn't this have been the same with the 802D3 or is it different?

The other comment you made which was hard for me to interpret was the fact you were left "emotionally and physically drained". The emotional part I took as a fantastic experience, but I did not understand the physical part of your comment. Could you elaborate on that?

The other thing I was surprised at is your statement that the "Cymbals and massed sopranos did occasionally sound too prominent". That seems at odds with JA measurements of the 802D3 which he felt the highs were balanced too high versus the Sopra 3 which had a naturally downward slopping high end which most people feel is the most natural. On the other hand, the 802D3 over 10,000 HZ is up almost 5db. Based on this you, would think the 802D3 could be more "brilliant" than the Focal 3, like JA described on the 805D3 he reviewed which had a similar lift in that area.

Looking forward to your comments.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:54 PM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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Originally Posted by GregGale View Post
Thanks Kal for your comments. A couple of comments you made which I did not understand. You said on SACD you had to play the track louder than the CD of the same recording to have it achieve "the ideal loudness". What does this have to do with the Sopra 3? Wouldn't this have been the same with the 802D3 or is it different?
Because I first noticed it with the Sopras and not before.

Quote:
The other comment you made which was hard for me to interpret was the fact you were left "emotionally and physically drained". The emotional part I took as a fantastic experience, but I did not understand the physical part of your comment. Could you elaborate on that?
The latter was a consequence of the intensity of the former.

Quote:
The other thing I was surprised at is your statement that the "Cymbals and massed sopranos did occasionally sound too prominent". That seems at odds with JA measurements of the 802D3 which he felt the highs were balanced too high versus the Sopra 3 which had a naturally downward slopping high end which most people feel is the most natural. On the other hand, the 802D3 over 10,000 HZ is up almost 5db. Based on this you, would think the 802D3 could be more "brilliant" than the Focal 3, like JA described on the 805D3 he reviewed which had a similar lift in that area.
Yeah. The effect has nothing to do with 10KHz. The fundamentals of soprano voices and cymbals are both well under 2KHz. These seemed more prominent on the Focals either because they were or because I perceived some imbalance with their harmonics.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:44 AM
Art Vandelay Art Vandelay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregGale View Post
?

The other thing I was surprised at is your statement that the "Cymbals and massed sopranos did occasionally sound too prominent". That seems at odds with JA measurements of the 802D3 which he felt the highs were balanced too high versus the Sopra 3 which had a naturally downward slopping high end which most people feel is the most natural. On the other hand, the 802D3 over 10,000 HZ is up almost 5db. Based on this you, would think the 802D3 could be more "brilliant" than the Focal 3, like JA described on the 805D3 he reviewed which had a similar lift in that area.

Looking forward to your comments.
If you examine the off axis performance you'll see a decent flare in the low treble, as noted by JA, so the perceived balance will to some extent be governed by the amount of toe-in, along with the liveliness of the listening room.

That said, the measurements overall look excellent, but I am curious to know why the designers decided to invert the mid and tweeter drivers instead of the woofer - for crossover phase coherence.

Not that I'm a big believer in absolute phase mind you.


Edit: OK, it occurred to me a few minutes after posting that the woofers should be in positive phase to avoid problems with sub-woofer augmentation.

Last edited by Art Vandelay; 03-11-2017 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:09 AM
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GregGale GregGale is offline
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[QUOTE=Kal Rubinson;836195]Because I first noticed it with the Sopras and not before.
Kal are you saying that with the 802D3 that if you played the SACD layer versus the original CD that it had the same "ideal liveliness" without having to turn up the SACD version at a higher level like you did with the Sopra? You said you noticed this with other SACD's with male singers. Are you sure this is due to the loudspeaker performance versus just the inherent difference between the SACD and CD layers you listened to?

From your review it also seemed as though the Focal's were more forgiving on older "technically compromised" recordings where you could enjoy these recordings making them more tolerable, even stuff that was bright and piercing. Does this mean that through the 802D3's these same recordings were not tolerable? If so, do you think this could possibly be due to the 802D3's elevated treble response?
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:38 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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[QUOTE=GregGale;836250]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Because I first noticed it with the Sopras and not before.
Kal are you saying that with the 802D3 that if you played the SACD layer versus the original CD that it had the same "ideal liveliness" without having to turn up the SACD version at a higher level like you did with the Sopra?
No. It is just that I never noticed it before until I made the comparison with the Sopras. Something they did underscored the differences.

Quote:
You said you noticed this with other SACD's with male singers. Are you sure this is due to the loudspeaker performance versus just the inherent difference between the SACD and CD layers you listened to?
Not separate layers, separately mastered recordings.

Quote:
From your review it also seemed as though the Focal's were more forgiving on older "technically compromised" recordings where you could enjoy these recordings making them more tolerable, even stuff that was bright and piercing. Does this mean that through the 802D3's these same recordings were not tolerable? If so, do you think this could possibly be due to the 802D3's elevated treble response?
Possibly or to less treble with the Sopras. And the word "intolerable" wasn't used. We are talking about relative differences.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:55 AM
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GregGale GregGale is offline
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Thanks Kal for your responses. In one highly respected magazine that reviewed both the Sopra 2 and the 3, they scored the Sopra 2 higher and commented they were fussy and needed a larger space to perform well.

My take on this is so much of this is room dependent and in your comments you had mentioned the Sopra 3's should not be used in a smaller room than what you have and you were not able to space them out wide enough to take full advantage. So in my mind bigger in the same series (even though they use similar drivers except for larger woofers in a bigger cabinet), may not translate into better sound in your room.

Ariess commented on this forum that he evaluated the 800D3 versus the 802D3 in his room in a similar position and that the 800D3 "swamped the room" with bass overload and he felt the 802D3 was far better at integrating into his room and giving a balanced response.

This makes it very tough for the consumer to make a purchasing decision without the ability to evaluate in their home setting, which I am sure has lead to expensive purchasing mistakes and regrets after the fact.

That is why reviews such as yours describing the space required is very valuable information. Do you think if the Sopra 3 was evaluated in a larger room setting where you could position them optimally they would have received a better rating that "Class B Full Range"?

Last edited by GregGale; 03-11-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:35 PM
jakegt3 jakegt3 is offline
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I just came across this thread and found it quite interesting. I recently bought the Sopra 3's but I auditioned a number of other speakers, including the 802D3, before settling on the Sopra's.

I was able to audition the Sopra 3's and the 802D3's at the same dealer, in the same listening room, driven by the same equipment (Audio Research Reference 75 amplifier and SP20 preamp). Among all the speakers I auditioned (8 in total), I rated these two as the top contenders. That said, they have a distinctly different sound character.

I would characterize the Sopra's as warmer and fuller sounding, with a larger and more open soundstage. However, I would not characterize them as being mellow or laid back. The beryllium tweeter is remarkable in that the high frequencies are all there but never harsh, shrill, or "in your face".

The 802D3's, to me, had a cooler tonal balance and the sound was more in the analytical camp. There was more prominence to the upper midrange and treble, but not excessively so. The low bass was outstanding, even better than the Sopra 3's which are also very good in the low bass. However, I didn't find the midrange to be as rich and vivid as the Sopra's.

90% of my listening is classical music and to me, the tonal character of the Sopra 3's was better suited to this music. For pop or jazz, I suspect the B&W's would be a better choice for many listeners.

As I noted above, at the dealer audition, the electronics were Audio Research because, as you can see in my signature, my home gear is also Audio Research. I didn't try any other electronics, so the sound character of these two speakers might come across differently with other gear, particularly solid state equipment.

Both are very good speakers. I think the choice of one vs. the other comes down to your personal preferences.
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:49 PM
moviemike moviemike is offline
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You match my thoughts when I compared the b&w to the sopra3 and bought the sopra. I prefer speakers that are smoother in the upper midrange treble where the b&w push forward that range
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