AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Canton

Canton Pure Music

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:56 PM
Scyld Scyld is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Default

FreddieFerric, thanks for your feedback!

I'd like to audition 1K too, but ... not going to happen
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:36 PM
Scyld Scyld is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Talking

Hi there!

I finally finished my quest for a new amplifier for Reference 9 K speakers.
Been listening to them with my new T+A PA 2000 R amplifier for about two or three weeks now. Balanced connection. Fully broken-in after the first week or so.

Well, long story short, they sound like a mono brand system together I heard three pairs of other brands acoustics on T+A and it only confirms that statement.

And with the following lines I will try to put down some of my thoughts about why it happens and why I've chosen this machine.

The most special features of this amplifier are speed, resolution and power. It's build with a switching power supply, which may not sound very sexy, but it has 700 W of continuous power and 1200 W peak. The amp itself provides 60 V/µs slew rate. The manufacturer claims 100/200/300 W into 8/4/2 Ohm. Real tests show (on average from different tests) 130/240/390 W into 8/4/2 and even 1 Ohm. All of that in a very slim case. And that means control. Mind You, it's not a clas D or Hypex amp. Analogue power. The unit runs rather warm even with inexisting volume levels so I suspect some bias towards class A for the first 10 or 20 watts. It also doesn't have a first watt problem (no additional distorsion at extremely low power output fugures).

The schematics is based on their flagship HV series (high voltage). The idea was to use higher voltages (360V in HV and 180V in R series) with transistors to have the benefits of tube designs. Pre amplifier and power amplifier are built on a single compact boards (for each channel), volume control is a resistors ladder (vishay-dale cmf55) switched with relays. The circuit topology of the input stage is based on a cascoded differential amplifier with J-FET transistors and stages of discrete construction. The voltage amplifier stage and current amplifier (MOSFET) are isolated from each other galvanically. They also use 5-pin thermaltrak transistors with built-in thermal sensors.

The amplifier has a built-in VU-meter, which has digital display and is rather fast. Is also shows the peak value for some time. This thing is interesting too. With music I rarely go beyound 10-20 Watts and it becomes too loud. But watching cinema (hello Blade runner 2049) it easily peaks to 100 W for shooting or explosions.

The results are quite impressive to my ears.

Speaking of simple and obvious things, this new device eliminated any boomy and uncontrolled bass, but added precise and dynamic power where it really exists in a record. It also has resolution, that eliminates any harsh one-note screaming sounds. No more one-note instruments. Even the sharpest voices, guitars or trumpets have complex timbres with many layers of sound informatin. Especially the vocals became airy and smooth. Most instruments have "visible" size, not only localization on a stereo image.

Another rather unexpected effect was too much focus with my old speaker placement (the speakers were "looking" directly on the listener). I never thought that there can be too much localization with stereo image, but that definitely was the case. On a flat and poorly recorded vocals it really sounded from a tiny spot, which isn't fun. I turned them out a little bit and for now I ended up with a toe-in when a listener is around 10 to 15 degrees from speakers axis. The stereo image is still focused, bus images are more airy and bigger in size. For a context, I use equilateral triangle speakers placement and listen in the near-field (2m).

Speaking of musicality, fast power gives music life and emotions. Any music. I couldn't find any genre preferences. Jazz or rock, classics or electronics. I can listen to rock again without falling asleep (was rather bored with some simple genres recently). Electronics is remarkable too. I never heard Kraftwerk like this before. Their records are very demanding with all these "square" sounds without compression. It's very difficult for a sound system.


Another changes that I did even before the amp change was to my listening environment.
I've rebuilt my listening room, adding a lot of acoustic treatment. Don't ask me to describe the solutions, it would be impossible with my english. Some of them can be found on acoustic-group.ru site, but it's in russian. Solutions use Sylomer (from Getzner) and floating ceiling, floor, wall. Heradesign panels for absorbtion etc.

And then I bought a measuring microphone and used free Audionet CARMA application to localize and fix some problems. It's sad that this company went bankrupt and the site is not even working anymore, so I don't know where to download this application now .

Well, the results are interesting too. These "bookshelf" speakers play in a real life room from 30 Hz. Not -10 or -6 db, no, they REALLY play from 32-34 Hz in a room of almost 20 square meters. Also, I had a huge bass lift (10+ db) in my right channel in a range of 50-70 Hz. Measuring showed, that in can be easily fixed by closing the speaker's bass reflex port. Or almost closing it (with acoustic synthetic winterizer). Which I did and then it was a question of adjusting of doors position (it affects a lot ) and other minor things.

What it shows, IMHO, that these speakers are made with no compromises in bass response. Even bookshelf versions should be taken seriously and ideally not be placed closer than 1 meter to any wall. Ideally....

Last edited by Scyld; 01-13-2019 at 08:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:06 AM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 4,985
Default

While your review is mostly about the T+A, have also found that the Ref 9Ks respond well to more power. I tried 20wpc & 35wpc of tube power and the 9Ks were not happy with that. Then tried 90wpc of solid-state and they were merely 'OK'. Finally, with 250wpc they have opened up and strutted their abilities. The 9Ks definitely prefer a strong whip-hand from the amp that's driving them.
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17³ & 4B-ST Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Denon DP-80 Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:08 AM
Scyld Scyld is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Default

That was my point exactly! Sorry for offtopic, but no matter what the brand is, I wanted to highlight what makes a difference and which specifications I think matter. Totally agree, these speakers need power. And not just power, but dynamic power. Most manufacturers shy to declare their amplifiers behavior into 2 or even 4 Ohm. But lab tests show that in that case a lot of units fail and show even less power, than into 8 Ohm. When this happens, it doesn't really matter, what absolute power numbers are. It won't do the job to control these speakers. I think that phylosophy was introduced by Dan D'Agostino for Krell amplifiers, but not sure really.

On the other hand, this is German brand, just like Canton. More to this, at Canton they use Audionet (also german with some similarities in approach) amplification to test their speakers in the head office (can be seen in factory tour articles). Now that this brand no longer exists, it's interesting if they will move to something else.

Also, while your tube amps tests are interesting, it would be nice if someone tries this line with Class A solid state designs (Pass Labs, Luxman). I'm curious if this design can handle them.

Last edited by Scyld; 01-13-2019 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:21 PM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 4,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scyld View Post
That was my point exactly! Sorry for off topic, but no matter what the brand is, I wanted to highlight what makes a difference and which specifications I think matter. Totally agree, these speakers need power. And not just power, but dynamic power. Most manufacturers shy to declare their amplifiers behavior into 2 or even 4 Ohm. But lab tests show that in that case a lot of units fail and show even less power, than into 8 Ohm. When this happens, it doesn't really matter, what absolute power numbers are. It won't do the job to control these speakers. I think that phylosophy was introduced by Dan D'Agostino for Krell amplifiers, but not sure really.

On the other hand, this is German brand, just like Canton. More to this, at Canton they use Audionet (also german with some similarities in approach) amplification to test their speakers in the head office (can be seen in factory tour articles). Now that this brand no longer exists, it's interesting if they will move to something else.
Yes........ have to admit to being surprised at how much power they really need to sound their best. Being primarily a monitor speaker user for the past 20yr, the 9K's needs are different than their predecessors in my systems. Not a bad thing. Just something that took almost a year of different amps to discover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scyld View Post
Also, while your tube amps tests are interesting, it would be nice if someone tries this line with Class A solid state designs (Pass Labs, Luxman). I'm curious if this design can handle them.
Wonder if Ivan could help on this with his Accuphase gear? Believe he has more than one Class A amp he could use to let us know his findings.

EDIT: Here is part of the answer to your Class A question: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=44864
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17³ & 4B-ST Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Denon DP-80 Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano

Last edited by Formerly YB-2; 01-13-2019 at 02:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:40 AM
Scyld Scyld is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Default

Thanks for an interesting link. A good read!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:57 PM
brownbear's Avatar
brownbear brownbear is online now
Pygmy Twylyte


 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 201
Default

With the new reference k series all having a nominal impedence of 4 to 8 ohms, has anyone experimented with different taps and drawn any conclusions?

I'd also be interested to know if anyone has experimented with the mid and treble gain settings on the rear of the 1 and 3k loud speakers.

Last edited by brownbear; 01-22-2019 at 10:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:42 AM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired


 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 4,985
Default

The +/- 1.5db adjustable taps are on the 1K & 3K, only.
__________________
Glenn...
Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17³ & 4B-ST Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Denon DP-80 Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 Stax UA-7/CF SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse 8/7 Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2019 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Fortress
Fortress
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase