Upgrade to D3 in theater?

[stark]

Hi everyone,

My audio journey has been very short so far, I started last year with the intent to change out my pro style gear in the theater to something more musical. I ended up going with B&W: 3x 800 diamond, 2x 802 diamond, 6x ccm8.5 for atmos/auro, and 2 x DB1. I will eventually decide if I add rears & wides.

These arrived a few months back and with work/travel and coordinating with the local dealer the install is booked for next month and everything is still boxed up. In the meantime the D3's have landed -- so do I upgrade now before my D2 system is even opened? Given the size of the order the dealer will work with me in mitigating the overall hit. The other issue is I went with cherry and the whole theater color scheme has been coordinated around that but now should I want to add wides/rears I won't have that option unless I find used gear.

I did talk to the national B&W rep during the D3 launch about my dilemma and he said for my particular needs at this time I should not take any financial hit and stick to D2, he said the launch of the D3 doesn't suddenly make the previous models 'terrible'.

It would likely be cheaper to setup a separate 2ch only audio system vs. full system swap at this time but I thought I'd ask everyone here for an opinion first. I have about a month to decide.

Thanks!

[Rod#S]

What seems to have been lost as of late is that the D2's are still great speakers. That's one heck of a system you have waiting to be installed. In my opinion I would stick to your original plans. I have no doubt the D3's are a small percentage better and if you were waiting for a 2 channel install I would suggest demoing the D3's as any differences would be more apparent in a 2 channel system IMO and I would wait for the 800D3 as well because the 800D2 is a noticeable step up from the 802D2 in my opinion and I wouldn't bother with a 802 2 channel setup knowing what I know about the real world differences between the 802's and 800's. But for a home theatre setup the D2 setup you have will be great.

Of course in the end it's always going to come down to your preference. If you know you are a person who must have the latest and greatest then you'll never be content with the D2's. As asthetics are important to many and if you prefer the look of the D3's over the D2's that's going to be a big factor in the end.

[Pio]

Originally Posted by Rod#S

What seems to have been lost as of late is that the D2's are still great speakers. That's one heck of a system you have waiting to be installed. In my opinion I would stick to your original plans. I have no doubt the D3's are a small percentage better and if you were waiting for a 2 channel install I would suggest demoing the D3's as any differences would be more apparent in a 2 channel system IMO and I would wait for the 800D3 as well because the 800D2 is a noticeable step up from the 802D2 in my opinion and I wouldn't bother with a 802 2 channel setup knowing what I know about the real world differences between the 802's and 800's. But for a home theatre setup the D2 setup you have will be great.

Of course in the end it's always going to come down to your preference. If you know you are a person who must have the latest and greatest then you'll never be content with the D2's. As asthetics are important to many and if you prefer the look of the D3's over the D2's that's going to be a big factor in the end.

+1


Every time I spend time with my 802D2's, I'm reminded of how great they are.

I can't wait for the upgrade bug to hit someone with mint 800D2's so I can score a pair in the used market.

[diononiz]

I think if music is a prioirty is for you, you should absolutely move to the D3 series. The difference is pretty remarkable. You will be regretting it later if you don't. Ultimately, you will need to demo both speakers back to back to make a final determination

On the other hand, if your primary focus is movies then price will play an important factor. With only the left and right speakers upgraded to the D3 (the D3 centers are not yet available) in my setup, the difference is less noticeable.

Nothing against the D2 series they ARE great speakers, I enjoyed mine for 3 years, I just feel the D3 are significantly better. The initial professional reviews seems to support this (Hifi news, etc)

[Venere]

Originally Posted by diononiz

The initial professional reviews seems to support this (Hifi news, etc)

I agree that the D3s seem to be better than the D2s based on my fairly brief in-store auditions, but I have to comment on your reference to "professional" reviews. I have noticed a growing trend toward glowing reviews in the press for EVERY component they review. I get it, the newer models should be better and they likely are. But surely there must be the occasional failure to dramatically improve the next gen product. And occasionally, heaven forbid, even a backslide to perhaps worse performance. But you'd never know that reading the industry mags. Every new component is a "game changer" or a "revelation". Yes, I understand these folks are all in the same industry and scratch each others backs, but its becoming more apparent to me that most of these reviews simply cant be relied upon. It would go a long way toward restoring my faith in the "professional" reviewing community if I read just one BAD review of a new product. Alas, I doubt I will ever see that again. The old addage to trust your own ears is truer now than ever.

[diononiz]

Originally Posted by Venere

I agree that the D3s seem to be better than the D2s based on my fairly brief in-store auditions, but I have to comment on your reference to "professional" reviews. I have noticed a growing trend toward glowing reviews in the press for EVERY component they review. I get it, the newer models should be better and they likely are. But surely there must be the occasional failure to dramatically improve the next gen product. And occasionally, heaven forbid, even a backslide to perhaps worse performance. But you'd never know that reading the industry mags. Every new component is a "game changer" or a "revelation". Yes, I understand these folks are all in the same industry and scratch each others backs, but its becoming more apparent to me that most of these reviews simply cant be relied upon. It would go a long way toward restoring my faith in the "professional" reviewing community if I read just one BAD review of a new product. Alas, I doubt I will ever see that again. The old addage to trust your own ears is truer now than ever.

Fair enough. I tend to agree but being honest I agree with what I have read. Reviewers so far seem to be spot on.

Would love to see the correlation between positive magazine review to size of ad in said magazine

[stark]

Thanks, if I could compare properly it might help but the issue is that I'd have to open my 802 and compare them against the new 802 and make a decision off that. So the 800D3 would be a complete blind buy at this point and I'd lose the most on these given that I have a triple set. On the looks front, I find photos don't do the D2 justice as they're more striking in real life and the marlan head is integrated better whereas the D3 look a little too thin/pole like in real life. Off photos alone I'd go for the new D3 but both are gorgeous enough that I would not want to base my decision on looks.

I think I need to figure out how much music listening I want to do in the room or if I would prefer to get a secondary 2ch audio setup to complement this. If my current setup is good enough for movies such that I wouldn't notice a big difference by changing to the D3's then I might as well stick with what I have for the time being.

I agree with the observation on reviews, they will always be glowing! With each iteration of audio products lifting another 'veil' I wonder if we're just working towards enjoying pure silence It's not only audio, but if you guys follow cars it's exactly the same there. Take for instance the Ferrari 488GTB, I expected it to be panned on a number of levels and yet it's receiving praise on everything including it's turbo exhaust noise.

[Pio]

Originally Posted by Venere

I agree that the D3s seem to be better than the D2s based on my fairly brief in-store auditions, but I have to comment on your reference to "professional" reviews. I have noticed a growing trend toward glowing reviews in the press for EVERY component they review. I get it, the newer models should be better and they likely are. But surely there must be the occasional failure to dramatically improve the next gen product. And occasionally, heaven forbid, even a backslide to perhaps worse performance. But you'd never know that reading the industry mags. Every new component is a "game changer" or a "revelation". Yes, I understand these folks are all in the same industry and scratch each others backs, but its becoming more apparent to me that most of these reviews simply cant be relied upon. It would go a long way toward restoring my faith in the "professional" reviewing community if I read just one BAD review of a new product. Alas, I doubt I will ever see that again. The old addage to trust your own ears is truer now than ever.

I agree. Trust you're own ears! Famed magazine reviewer Steve Guttenberg preferred the sound of the Maggie .7's to the 802D3's, Wilson Sabrina's and others in a recent article he wrote for CNET. I know we can't post links, so google "cnet speaker of the year" if you're interested in reading what he wrote.

Anyways, on the new vs old, have you watched a documentary called "Sound City"? It's a full documentary on the Neve 8078 board used to record many many smash records before the "new and improved" digital revolution in the mid 80's. Dave Grohl seems to think that mixing board from the early 70's sounds better than anything made today. He bought it! And uses it for his records. I like Dave, he trusts his own ears.

I'm lucky, I've spent close to 30 years in the music business, and have heard my fair share of many great audio set ups. It's hard to find a modern product that sucks unless its intentionally designed to sound a specific "sucky" way.

I'm sure the new D3 series is a step forward from the previous D2. I have no doubt of it. I'm a fan of the B&W sound, have been for years. The round edge design of the front panel alone (in the 803 and 802) should make for a speaker that "disappears" even more than the D2 and that leads to benefits in sound staging.

But, before I would ever upgrade, I would have to do a blind test between the D2 and the D3, to make sure the mark up in price is justified. I'm sorry, but that's the way to truly avoid the "confirmation bias" (google it) many audiophiles fall prey into. That's how I picked my audio cables

Maybe I'm getting old, but unless I can hear a clear difference that I like and can't live without, I'm staying put until I do.

I was thinking about the OP's predicament. He's at a different level of budget than most as he shelled out a pretty penny for the previous models. Unless he got a sweet discount, it sucks that the dealer didn't have the decency to let him know the new models were being released so soon after purchase. I would be pissed.

If I had the cash, I would upgrade. I would start with the room though....

[chessman]

stark, objectively for a primarily HT use, you should stick with what you have. You have already sunk the cost. They did not become junk because a new model came out. There is always "better on the horizon" in this hobby.

The problem is that this is really an emotional decision. How are you going to feel? Are you going to regret not going big? Are you going to regret spending the extra money?

The two channel comment might be a clue to how to proceed. Put in this HT set-up. See if you become enamored of two channel (it happened to me). If so, set up a separate two channel rig and go big there. For one thing, HT spacing of speakers is not ideal for two channel (hence the center channel). Secondly, you may want a different sound for two channel.

Good luck and tell us what you decide! Unfortunately, only you can answer the emotional question.

[stark]

Does anyone know when dealers knew about the new models? Mine claim they had no idea and B&W surprised everyone with the launch. They also aren't going to tell me that D3's are way better because of the timing of everything. I would be upset a lot more if the msrp was fairly close but by all accounts it's quite a healthy bump so I haven't pushed the matter hard.

Originally Posted by chessman

The problem is that this is really an emotional decision. How are you going to feel? Are you going to regret not going big? Are you going to regret spending the extra money?

This is spot on as these are toys. In the end I understand it will be an emotional decision but I will think about it seriously as the money could easily be used elsewhere or plain old saved -- I haven't even heard the old or new models long enough to really have an opinion founded on anything substantial. I posted in the hopes someone might have been using them in a music/movie style setting and would make a strong case for upgrading. I have acquaintances that introduced me to this hobby (I've always been into video) and some of them spend more time upgrading than actually enjoying music and I'm hoping to avoid that trap.

The room is treated very well and setup to enhance the new audio formats and multi-channel music. I'm a firm believer in room treatments and I'll share details and specs once it's all setup.