Ivan, you have compared SF to Wilson.

[Masterlu]

Why that lousy no good "*%#(^@)<#^"!

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by schaefer11

Serge, If only we could all listen with your ears. It is a shame we have to use our own.

Ivan & David, I do not know what you were thinking! You both came to a conclusion that Serge disagrees with, so naturally you must have done something wrong.

Serge, are people only "more honest and open minded" if they agree with you?

Sorry, I probably should stay out of this one, but the entertainment factor here is sometimes just too much to pass up. I am glad that I cannot afford to play this game right now, but still get to watch from the sidelines.

Honesty and open mindedness has nothing to do with agreeing with me. That's all I am going to say on that. These forums are created for audio nuts to share their opinions, experiences, offer some guidance, ask questions, to learn and to guide others in spending their hard earned dollars when they ask for guidance.

I admit that I must appear as the black sheep in the flock very often, the problem is that while I understand the psychological aspect and comfort of belonging to forums that share your enthusiasm for one particular brand, be it Audio, Watch, Cars or many other hobby type forums, I see the comradery border on ridiculous whether I am on the Patek Philippe, Ferrari, Porsche or just about any other forum including this mostly McIntosh based forum. While I have no problems admitting that there is always an alternative and in some ways something better out there than just the brand I myself chose to own, many find this very difficult for some reason. When passion for one particular brand overshadows the reality and borders on blind and unwavering worship at the altar, that's where it stops being interesting and fun.

Want to say it's not true with McIntosh fans? Do you guys think many others in the hobby will drop $12k for a product without even seeing and hearing it first? How many have ordered the MX150? MEN220? MVP881? No one has bought a pair of McIntosh amps without hearing them first? How about Sonus Faber speakers? PMC?

It is no different here, as long as we are praising McIntosh, Sonus Faber or PMC, all is right in this world.... The moment someone goes against the grain and offers an opinion on something else for the sake of truth and honesty, well, you see the result.

While I also respect the fact that this is Ivan's forum and Ivan is a big McIntosh fan as well as a dealer for many other brands, I can't change my nature of speaking my mind and being as honest and truthful based on my own experiences of which I think I have enough for this particular hobby. I often feel isolated and singled out in those moments for different reasons from different members.

I have no problem with any of the gear out there and am passionate about learning and experiencing various gear and speakers I have not heard yet. I would never offer any opinions on stuff I have never heard, if something captures my imagination and ignites my passion, I will go and investigate and share my findings.

I also enjoy relationships and open channels of communications I've built with various dealers in the past 25 years and they often confide in me things that are not often shared publicly. I can't always share those on the forums....

Like I already said, I can't change my openness and honesty, if it goes against the grain and members would rather not hear it, I have no problem with not participating any further. Wouldn't be the first time....

[1KW]

Originally Posted by schaefer11

Serge, If only we could all listen with your ears. It is a shame we have to use our own.

Ivan & David, I do not know what you were thinking! You both came to a conclusion that Serge disagrees with, so naturally you must have done something wrong.

Serge, are people only "more honest and open minded" if they agree with you?

Sorry, I probably should stay out of this one, but the entertainment factor here is sometimes just too much to pass up. I am glad that I cannot afford to play this game right now, but still get to watch from the sidelines.

[Masterlu]

1) Everybody gets a free punch at KingRT

2) Group Hug...

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Alberto, we've known each other for many years now, through literally thousands of posts we have found out that our taste and preference is similar when it comes to certain qualities of sound. We both are highly sensitive to grain, hash and irritating top end as well as sterile and cold sonic signatures that are devoid of rich harmonics and proper weight and scale. Through some of the posts, we both have enjoyed some gear based on recommendations from each other immensely.

...

Yes, my friend, we have indeed walked very similar paths until recently (mostly with me following in your footsteps) and have very similar tastes. So when you say that the Wilson sound has changed, I have no trouble believing you.

If I was in the market for new speakers, I would audition the Sasha's based on your recommendation alone. Although I'd have a hard time overlooking their looks - I am not going to say that aesthetics trump acoustics, but they are important to the overall experience for me. Even when my Guarneris are silent - which is rarely - I still get a kick by how great they look.

Fortunately I won't have to make such decisions, I am still immensely pleased with my current set-up. I haven't changed any components in a long time and have no desire to do so.

The most important criteria in equipment selection is long-term satisfaction and pleasure. The only way to know what's best for you (i.e. KingRT) is to audition speakers in your room for at least one week and listening to your favorite recordings (not just audiophile stuff). In store auditions can result in false-negatives (sounds bad in the store, but would have sounded great in your home with your equipment) and false-positives (sounds great in the store and like c*ap in your home.)

Alberto

[1KW]

Originally Posted by PHC1

David, with all due respect my friend, you are simply not up to speed with Wilson speakers. Listening to Alexandrias and not even realizing what they were and listening briefly to a pair of Sashas does not constitute a well educated point of view. I suggested you spend some quality time listening to Wilson but you chose to have Amatis dropped off to your house, spend a night with them and send them packing in the morning after like two bit wh^res. Having obtained a discounted deal on Elipsa, you jumped on them like tomorrow wouldn't come.

I am happy for you that Elipsa is bringing you satisfaction, it is a very good speaker indeed but I am confident in saying that you would have been very impressed with a few dozen other speakers of which you don't even have knowledge of or previous experience with. Flock mentality will do that, if a few McIntosh fans own them, it must be the best and nothing else exists, making it that much easier to spend what would be a very nice car for a teenager in a blink of an eye without even attempting to audition some alternatives. Not to worry, the Elipsa will not be your last speaker as you still have the Strads as your ultimate dream speaker and it is just a matter of time before another wad of cash will fix that problem.

Serge when it comes to knowing about the human ear, the processing of sound it is simply not the case that I am flocking mentally. I am learning more and more about the physics of high fidelity but in the end it comes down to preference. Your SF GM speakers that Dan now has, imaged better then either of your Wilson speakers and was a hell of alot better looking too.

[Masterlu]

BTW, FWIW; when Peter McGrath got done with his Demo of the Sasha's for me and said "What do you Think" the only thing I was able to say was "It sounds interesting" he seemed surprised.

When David Wilson finished his demo of the Maxx3's and inquired my thoughts, I said "Where's the deep Bass?"

He then showed me the brochure for Thors Hammer, maybe it's just me.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

1) Everybody gets a free punch at KingRT

2) Group Hug...

+1 the group hug part at least

[Masterlu]

Besides "A little heat in the kitchen" is to be expected!"

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 1KW

Serge when it comes to knowing about the human ear, the processing of sound it is simply not the case that I am flocking mentally. I am learning more and more about the physics of high fidelity but in the end it comes down to preference. Your SF GM speakers that Dan now has, imaged better then either of your Wilson speakers and was a hell of alot better looking too.

I am not an ENT but I have had my share of human anatomy and physiology courses in college enough to know how everything works but not enough to go in there with a surgical tool. That's enough for me. Not that any of this has anything to do with experience in high end audio.

Now, while the GMs image incredibly, neither the Sophia II nor the Sasha were any worse and are in fact better than the wide cabinet SF speakers due to the nature of the wide baffle. What you gain with a wide baffle with SF, you lose a bit in imaging. Specifically the lateral portions of the soundstage. Also, while a lot has to do with the gear, cables and your room acoustics besides the speaker itself, the depth of soundstage and layering of instruments with a truly holographic and three dimensional presentation is Wilson's forte. Your brief listening session was not conductive to pick up those nuances.

While you are undeniably a true expert when it comes to human ear, you have lots of learning still when it comes to listening to high end audio. I don't mean that as an insult my friend, it is a simple fact that it takes many years for an audiophile to train their ears and to be able to absorb and dissect all the information a different system and speakers will present you with within minutes of listening to a very familiar to you recording. At this point, we simply do not hear the same way when we listen. Belive me, I've had a few rather green audiophile friends who thought they can tell a difference instantly but in fact could not pick up on the key differences between a McCormack amp and Mark Levinson I had in my system and invited them to audition without their knowledge what was hooked up a few times back and forth. To me they sounded very different. While this has nothing to do with a preference or taste, it clearly showed that they couldn't process the sound with precision or did not know what to listen for. Pretty typical for inexperienced audiophiles.

Enjoy the ride, enjoy your system and its evolution, gain experience and don't be in such a hurry to offer advise where it is not your area of expertise quite yet.