Audio research vs mcintosh...preamp smackdown

[2fastdriving]

I Decided to try several audio research preamps and compare with my c2300 with psvanes installed.

First up is the DSPre, which is solid state and has a built in dac. I have to say that it betters my c2300/d100 combo in every way except one. Hard rock. I'm not sure what it is with arc gear, but it doesn't like to rock in my experience. Lacks bass drive and speed. However, on every other type of material, separation is greater, voices more lifelike, instruments portrayed more realistically. It's really a great preamp! The bass is actually very good until you try to play hard and fast rock. Something seems to be missing.

I'm going to try using my d100 as the dac with this thing and see if it's the dac or pre section.

Next week, I'm getting a Ref5SE . That will be interesting. Then I get the brand new SP20.

I am not sure if I have the funds to do this for a while, but trying to chart my course for the future. I think it has ARC in it!

But for looks and build quality...the mcintosh kills ARC. All of them.

[Jerome W]

I have listened side by side to a C2300 with stock tubes and a LS17 preamp.
The LS17 was much better for every kind of music.
My REF phono 2 was much better too than the phono section of my C1000.

[2fastdriving]

I swear arc adds some kind of ambient effect. I'm listening to recordings I am very familiar with, and they have a slight echo, which I've never heard before. I can hear it on more than one recording. Very weird.

If they did something like that, it would explain my issues with rock, but I guess if they were coloring things that much, nobody would buy their stuff. Must be in the recording?

[JPrest]

Looks are pretty subjective. Some could question how hard ARC pushes the limits of their components, but I have never heard anyone question the build quality of their products or compare it to McIntosh. Both have historically been solid companies with quality products. That said with the way things are changing in the consumer audio business, I would be hard pressed to buy any current production piece of gear till it has been out in the field for awhile and had plenty of unbiased reviews from customers.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by JPrest

Looks are pretty subjective. Some could question how hard ARC pushes the limits of their components, but I have never heard anyone question the build quality of their products or compare it to McIntosh. Both have historically been solid companies with quality products. That said with the way things are changing in the consumer audio business, I would be hard pressed to buy any current production piece of gear till it has been out in the field for awhile and had plenty of unbiased reviews from customers.

True, looks are subjective. ARC has good build quality for sure. But my mcintosh gear is twice as heavy. Feels incredibly well built. The ARC products all have a nice faceplate, but the chassis is lightweight. Not a huge deal. Obviously they make great stuff...I'm considering moving in that direction, looks be damned.

[2fastdriving]

Hold the presses.

I just hooked this up with my d100 as the dac.

The DSPre dac was making a much greater difference than the preamp section.

So maybe I should be shopping for a dac. I'm no longer impressed with my d100. The arc dac section is far better.

[2fastdriving]

My friend is bringing his bifrost over next week. If that sounds better than my d100, I'm buying one. His has all the options. But it won't be burned in...he's due to get it next week.

But ultimately I covet an esoteric. Whichever I can afford I guess.

[junker]

I'd recommend trying an MSB Analog DAC w/ Volume Control/Analog input option

1. AnalogDAC into 2300
2. AnalogDAC into ARC
3. D100 into D2300 (baseline)
4. D100 into ARC
5. AnalogDAC into MC452

Then you could isolate the DAC vs. pre-amp. My feeling is it's your DAC but I wouldn't consider anything from Schiit to blow the D100 away. However, just adding a Berkeley USB input transform the D100. Worth trying as well IMHO.

Either way you need to get a very good front end before splitting hairs with the pre-amp. Your system is so revealing at this point that you really need a good DAC to go with your turntable. Look at MSB, LightHarmonic, TotalDAC, Berkeley+Loki, etc.

[2fastdriving]

Thanks. You are right. My dealer does carry the msb.

I'm very curious about schiit dacs. I want to see what league they play in.

Usually I don't hear much difference with dacs. But clearly the arc is in a different league than my d100. It's obvious immediately.

I love the idea of a amr dp777 or esoteric k03 based on what everyone here says... But esoteric is very expensive.

[2fastdriving]

This is painful. After a weekend of listening to a "lower end" ARC preamp/dac absolutely demolish my c2300/d100 combo, I want to cry. I love my mc gear. It's gorgeous and it sounds good. But I'm sorry...it's not in the same league as the DSPre. It's like cables...I refuse to believe it, but hearing is believing.

The good news is, my mc452 happily takes what it's given and converts it to pure joy.

Now I have to rethink my roadmap.