Incoming

[STC]

May I know how much you paid to upgrade your amp to SE version. Thanks for sharing.

[ariess]

$2500

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[Bobvin]

Well, I'm not sure what to do... I'm tempted to upgrade my Ref75, but I see, e.g., the Ref150 was introduced in 2011 (Wow, that long already?) and the Ref250 in 2012. Given a typical life cycle for an ARC amp is around 4 years, that would mean the SE upgrades are a gap-filling, revenue generating tweak for ARC and those that must have it (in which case a revenue draining tweak). I expect there will be new REF series components coming if not end of this year then likely early 2016. I'm sure the changes will come around the 150 tube, and be an improvement over the GS150.

I will try to hold myself back for the next revision, but man-o-man the jones may just get me first.

[tima]

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Well, I'm not sure what to do... I'm tempted to upgrade my Ref75, but I see, e.g., the Ref150 was introduced in 2011 (Wow, that long already?) and the Ref250 in 2012. Given a typical life cycle for an ARC amp is around 4 years, that would mean the SE upgrades are a gap-filling, revenue generating tweak for ARC and those that must have it (in which case a revenue draining tweak). I expect there will be new REF series components coming if not end of this year then likely early 2016. I'm sure the changes will come around the 150 tube, and be an improvement over the GS150.

I will try to hold myself back for the next revision, but man-o-man the jones may just get me first.

Hmmmm..... consider the REF 5 SE and the REF PHONO 2 SE. Their forebearers, the REF5 and REF PHONO 2 came out in 2009. The SE releases are current models that have been out since 2012, in all practicality. (They were announced in November 2011, but not broadly available until 2012.) Here in 2015, most owners don't think of them as gap-fillers or tweaks in comparison to the REF 5 and REF PHONO 2 releases. Likewise consider which varietal is desirable on the secondary market.

The REF 75 became available in ... was it July of 2012? .... so its replacement by the SE version came when it was a little over 2½ years old. If the REF 75 + REF 75SE lives for just 4½ years, that could be the Fall of 2017 as a retirement date. Or based on past history, its replacement is announced in November of 2017.

The lifespan of REF SE versions of the amps may be a function of how well they do in the marketplace or as you suggest there may be a whole new group of amps inside 14 months.

If you spend $2500 for the upgrade now and factor out the cost of a new tube set which you'll spend anyway (whether for KT120s or 150s) and you get half that cost back on resale, in say, 2 years, it'll cost you what?? Less than $1.50?? a day for the upgrade? We don't know the future, but one thing is fairly likely, Bob: between now and then we'll be hearing about a lot of REF75SE upgrades and new purchases. Is a buck-and-a-half a day too high a price to be on the non-envious side of that conversation?

[Harlequin]

Some excellent points there tima, however I find my own considerations align a little closer with Bob's at this point in time.

Whilst I would agree that the price point for upgrading the REF75 within CUSA is almost compelling, for owners of an REF150 and in particular REF250's perhaps the exponential cost of upgrading may require a little more consideration.

It also remains to be seen whether the SE upgrade pricing structure elsewhere in the world will be reflective of market currency rates, as for instance, should it prove to be £5000 / EUR 5000 and £9000 / EUR 9000 respectively, then even more of a serious consideration for some.

There is also a point with regard to the 1 year warranty as mentioned in the recent announcement, which as per par for the ARC Crazy Golf course is not exactly definative in the detail as to whether this purely covers the specific element parts of the ES upgrade alone, or an additional 1 year warranty on the amplifier as a whole ?

For the time being, I think that I shall remain on the fence with this one.

[Number95]

Originally Posted by ariess

Well I just got my Ref75SE back from ARC and connected and I am very happy.
It sounds spectacular! I will try to post more impressions as time goes on but this definitely feels like a worthwhile upgrade over my Ref 75 with KT150's. Didn't think it was possible but transparency is improved, balance is better, less sibilance, wider sound stage, bass sounds more dynamic and more harmonic. And the new parts haven't even broken in yet!

Attachment 39348

Attachment 39349

Attachment 39350

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Attachment 39352



I attach a couple of pictures. From the under the hood picture tell me if you can see what parts changed (ARC is not saying except that there are a number of changed parts, capacitors, wires, etc).
I could immediately see that the very long wires running between the KT150's are different, heavier. There may also be changes under the board where it is hard for me to see.

Congratulations with your recent upgrade. Regarding soundstage which you described as wider with kt-150, how about the depth, is there also an improvement on depth, layering etc? Is soundstage a bit more forward now or laid back?

[ariess]

Its either a bit more forward or more transparent which gives the same feeling.

[Bobvin]

Originally Posted by tima

Hmmmm..... consider the REF 5 SE and the REF PHONO 2 SE. Their forebearers, the REF5 and REF PHONO 2 came out in 2009. The SE releases are current models that have been out since 2012, in all practicality. (They were announced in November 2011, but not broadly available until 2012.) Here in 2015, most owners don't think of them as gap-fillers or tweaks in comparison to the REF 5 and REF PHONO 2 releases. Likewise consider which varietal is desirable on the secondary market.

The REF 75 became available in ... was it July of 2012? .... so its replacement by the SE version came when it was a little over 2½ years old. If the REF 75 + REF 75SE lives for just 4½ years, that could be the Fall of 2017 as a retirement date. Or based on past history, its replacement is announced in November of 2017.

The lifespan of REF SE versions of the amps may be a function of how well they do in the marketplace or as you suggest there may be a whole new group of amps inside 14 months.

If you spend $2500 for the upgrade now and factor out the cost of a new tube set which you'll spend anyway (whether for KT120s or 150s) and you get half that cost back on resale, in say, 2 years, it'll cost you what?? Less than $1.50?? a day for the upgrade? We don't know the future, but one thing is fairly likely, Bob: between now and then we'll be hearing about a lot of REF75SE upgrades and new purchases. Is a buck-and-a-half a day too high a price to be on the non-envious side of that conversation?

Dammit Tima. Now you've gone and blown a hole right through my argument (mostly with myself) as why NOT to upgrade.

[Number95]

Originally Posted by ariess

Its either a bit more forward or more transparent which gives the same feeling.

I do not want to get lost in words here but in some instances forwardness may be considered as analytical or aggressive. I presume you don't mean those. I wonder if kt-150 while more dynamic and energetic, may give up in terms of a bit in easiness?

[nonesup]

[Quote = ariess; 687093] Bueno, yo acabo de volver de mi Ref75SE ARC y conecté y estoy muy feliz.
Suena espectacular! Voy a tratar de publicar más impresiones conforme pasa el tiempo, pero esto definitivamente se siente como una actualización de la pena por encima de mi Ref 75 con de KT150. No creía que fuera posible, pero se mejora la transparencia, el equilibrio es mejor, menos sibilancia, escenario de sonido más amplio, el bajo suena más dinámico y más armónico. Y las nuevas piezas ni siquiera han roto en adjuntar un par de fotos. Desde el debajo de la foto capucha dime si puedes ver lo cambiaron partes (ARC no está diciendo la salvedad de que hay un número de partes que han cambiado, condensadores, cables, etc.). Pude ver de inmediato que los muy largos cables que corre entre los años KT150 son diferentes, más pesado. También puede haber cambios bajo el tablero donde es difícil para mí ver. [/ Quote]


Hola Aries.
Una vez que estos 15 días han pasado desde sus primeras declaraciones , podría darnos más información sobre el sonido de su nuevo SE.
Estoy muy interesado en su opinión y de cualquier otro miembro , que ha intentado un SE.
Saludos