Bryston SP3 Preamp-Processor

[James Tanner - Bryston]

Originally Posted by jamshed

Jeffkad,

If it was not for EQ thing I would have gone for SP3.

Mohammad

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

Hi Folks,

I have been asked a few times why no digital room correction on the Bryston SP-3 Processor.

The problem I see with Digital room correction through ‘EQ’ is that it totally screws up the direct sound vs the reflected sound coming from the speaker.

When you listen to a speaker in a room you are listening to what we call the ‘power response’ and you hear all the direct sound as well as the reflected sound mixed together. So the listening experience is a combination of all the direct and reflected sound waves in a given room with a given speaker. When you alter the ‘direct sound’ at the speaker using ‘EQ’ it totally changes the relationship between the direct and reflected sound and is a disaster when it comes to ‘time smear’. So the speaker designer has spent years attempting to get flat frequency and phase response from his speaker and we come along and force the speaker to do anything but accurate signal transfer. Also if you are going to use ‘EQ’ try and only ‘reduce’ the ‘peaks’ in the room and not ‘amplify’ the troughs. Amplifying the troughs can play havoc with your speaker drivers power handling.

A lot of these newer types of ‘EQ’ products try and average a group of curves taken from many different locations in the room as they are attempting to reduce the negative effects of the single listening chair dilemma. Having a single spot in the room which measures flat but everywhere else in the room measures like crap is not a good result in my opinion. I think you are much better off adjusting the speaker location and using proper room treatments. If all else fails maybe some ‘EQ’ can be used but I would recommend keeping the correction only for the very low bass frequencies and stay away from upper bass, mids and higher frequency ‘EQ’ where room affects are not an issue due to the shorter wavelengths involved. I am hopeful that we will see many more Subwoofers with built in room ‘EQ’ which would be the better solution in my opinion if you are forced to use room correction.

Also ‘Room Correction’ much like ‘Video’ is changing quickly and I wanted the SP-3 to be a long-term purchase for our customers so adding specific dedicated boxes as the current technologies develop to the SP-3 made more sense to me going forward rather than obsoleting some questionable feature in the SP-3.

Hope this helps.

James

[SHV]

"Also ‘Room Correction’ much like ‘Video’ is changing quickly and I wanted the SP-3 to be a long-term purchase...."
*******
One of the main reasons I bought an SP3; no here today gone tomorrow video/audio tech. The other reasons, the Bryston reputation and Kal Rubinson's review.

Steve

[jamshed]

Thanks
James
That all makes sense
I really appreciate that
Mohammad

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

[rbuteau]

Hi All, I am new user on this forum.
I have received my Bryston SP3 two weeks or so and I have only been listing in stereo and 2.1 only until I can re-arrange my equipment.
I never had much luck or love for digital preamp or processor. It’s my third multichannel preamp/processor my very first one Anthem statement D2V, then the Onkyo PR-SC5508 but I had a chance to listen to several other units including the Classe. I didn’t do any A/B between the Classe and Bryston SP3, yet. My current system configuration includes a JL-Audio F113, a pair of Parasound JC-1 and Revel Salon2 and a BDP-95 as a source for both digital and analog testing at this point. I did only functional testing with my music server over USB but it sounded good at 44Khz.
I must say The SP3 is pretty impressive, I find it really transparent it’s comparable my other analog preamp is Simaudio P7. I wasn’t able to do a whole lot of A/B comparison I am still working through some kinks. Just as reference when I got the Onkyo, I did some A/B against the P7. I could hear a difference right away with no music connected and it just didn’t sound as good even in “Pure Audio” mode. The noise floor was higher and it had list of issues I won’t start on. It bothered me so much I never used the Onkyo in analog stereo. It’s still early for me to comment on this but as a lot of reviewer commented the Bryston preamp in analog is transparent and neutral at least enough so that I am willing to displace my Simaudio P7 for the first time.

The Bryston Sp3 is great product. As most of the positive review so far have been focused about the unit and how great it sounds. I am going to go at length with some of the weaker of the units and around usability and hopefully this is going to be received as constructive criticism. Some of these issues might be just ignorance on my part or things that can be fixed with some upgrade by Bryston or interoperability problem with my BDP-95. I am just going to list a series of “discoveries” I found here so far. Also a lot issues I saw so far are minor or only relevant when you are changing configuration or testing if you just use one source and let it play, It get the job done.
So I am posting because I still have some questions on the units. I wasn’t able to get a hold of Bryston on the weekend but I will call them during normal business this week.

AC3 input audio dropping:
I am seeing issues Mpeg2 Video with AC3 audio input with over the air (FTA) TV channels when the audio drops out completely when there are few packet drops the video always look clean or as very little disruptions. Sometime the audio drop for 1 second, sometime for 4 seconds and sometime it just never come back unless I switch input or use the same input then it fine. I contacted the dealer I told me to change a setting PCM ZR (I went from Auto to Gapless1/gapless), which I did but I didn’t make much of improvement. Now I am using full lock, which is a bit better but I still got a few occurrence where the picture is perfect and the audio drop for several seconds. Maybe there is something else I should try? Using a cable feed fixes the issues but I see SP3 doesn’t handle packet drop well. At minimum it should auto revert to Analog if it can’t get a steady Digital signal.

HDMI handshake issues and HDMI switching:
As two other users have reported (melgross, and a2k2000) there is disruption of audio when a new source start it just a once time occurrence I would like to know if that is hardware or software bug and when it’s going to be fixed. HDMI switching doesn’t seem to be strong point of that unit. You should be able at a minimum to switch audio from HDMI to coax (or vice versa) on the same input without resetting HDMI connections and creating audio/video playback disruptions. It takes 2-3 seconds to switch from coax to HDMI input and it seems to reset everything. It is about same thing with analog but just a bit quicker (1-1.5 second). These delays bake it hard to do A/B comparison just because the delay is so long. It would be a lot easier if the delay would be <250ms-500ms.

USB at 44Khz:
Since the marketing literature mention USB 2.0 I just assumed that 480Mbit/sec would be enough to ingest 192Khz@24bits. I found out about that limitation after buying it . I saw a post about a new USB board mentioned on this board. What is the realistic ETA on the new asynchronous USB board Q4 2012, Q1 or Q2 2013?

HDMI at 88k/96k:
I read about this is issues being with bluray/sacd in Kal Rubinson‘s review. Since then there are other people mention this could be a limitation of the player associated with DRM with these format. (Is there any player out there that output SACD at 176K/192K over HDMI/SPDIF?). I wasn’t able to get PCM over coax SPDIF out of SACD on the Oppo either but it did work at 44/48khz on a Sony BDP-s480. I went and bought a few DVD-ROM from MA recording with wav audio files and two HRX disc from Reference recording and they sound great but I still get the same limitation with HDMI. The upside I try the coax spif and it works I tested up to 176Khz/24bit! I will post a follow-up on that when I get more time to listen to these new discs. I had some issues with coax spdif when “HDMI” audio was on if I when to “DIG” to get the coax spdif. Sometime I had to hit “DIG” three times to go to analog then back to SPDIF to hear the audio…

HDMI volume;
On HDMI input source sometime I hear some barely audible digital noise only if I make a big volume adjustment, I haven’t notice it with analog inputs or coax.

Balanced input can’t have SPIF input
I ran into another series of issues today when I try to do some A/B/C/D comparison with HDMI, spdif, rca, balanced inputs with the BAL1. There doesn’t seem to be a way to configure a coax or optical input to add it to a balance input. As a workaround I connected it to CD input for the coax and rca. This caused the BDP-95 player to “skip” because the HDMI was still on Bal1 which isn’t receiving an HDMI input anymore (or maybe the unit is just constantly resetting or re-syncing) . I also tried connecting both HDMI to CD and Bal1 and that fail too. It would be much simpler if the configuration screen would allow us to add SPDIF to Bal1 and Bal2 so we don’t need to go behind the receiver to switch/remove the HDMI cable. As a work around you can disconnect all HDMI input and do ABC. This is really annoying.

REMOTE:
The remote construction build quality is excellent but it layout where all the buttons are four block of one or two line of four buttons is poor. There is no real logical group. Usability is even worse at a minimum the right, up, down, left should be in some kind of variant of cross distribution NOT ON LINE. It’s not intuitive; it’s pretty shocking to see something this bad in 2012. But seriously I shouldn’t have ever to look down more than once to find the arrow keys on a remote even it’s going to be used for initial setup only. My Simaudio P7 remote is good build quality as better finish and much easier to uses.

LCD:
LCD Display: it’s too small I can barely read it when I am 8 feet away, I think it’s about 1 inch by 3 inch and it should be at least two or three time that size with matching fonts.

I just want to finish up on a positive not I love the sounds of the SP3 preamp even if I am still figuring things out. I keep discovering new information and new sounds especially in surround track even when down-converted to 2.1. My wife asked me a few times what is making this sounds in the kitchen but it is actually part of the sounds track. The level of details is impressive and soundstage is that realistic! I think even if of the things I reported get addressed it still unit worth looking at just because of how good it sounds, it’s phenomenal! I will post a follow-up review a little later.

[jeffkrag]

Great information rbuteau! thanks for sharing both pros and cons. Your bottom line follows the consensus: it sounds absolutely fantastic, but not without a few annoying operational quirks/issues. They do need to fix the HDMI issues. Asynch USB is supposedly on its way, but no ETA yet. The remote is definitely embarassing, and not up to speed with Brystons capabilities in my estimation. However, the poor remote functionality can hopefully be erased at least for ipad/iphone users if they ever write a good app for it. And yet....it sounds so good, these issues can probably be overlooked by most. Look forward to more info.

BTW, as a fellow Revel Salon 2 and BDP95 owner, it is especially good to know the SP3 sounds good with a similar set-up to mine. You did say that you haven't done a comparison with the Classe yet. Does that imply that you still have the Classe (SSP800 I assume?) and will be doing such a comparison at some point?

[jamshed]

Wonderful info rubuteau,

Thanks for such detailed info .
Looking forward to know how you r enjoying bryston SP3.
Mohammad

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

[Masterlu]

rbuteau... Welcome!

[SHV]

"I think even if of the things I reported get addressed it still unit worth looking at just because of how good it sounds, it’s phenomenal! I will post a follow-up review a little later. "
*****
Excellent review. I was aware of many of the "issues" that you mention prior to ordering an SP3. The most obvious for me is the HDMI switching. However, this: "because of how good it sounds, it’s phenomenal!" made the other issues inconsequential for me. Hopefully an "integrated" SP3/BDP-1 app for I-Pad will be forthcoming in the near future.

Steve

[a2k2000]

I am using the Sp3 in a 2 Channel setup like rbuteau and am really impressed. I am not missing multichannel at all here. With movies this thing has an edge over the classe. I completely concur with the remote opinion - It is by far the worst remote I have used.

Here are a list of things I would like to have added to the Bryston.

1. A separate music and movie profile per input with the ability to switch between both - The Classe and the Cary have them.

2. No room correction but manual equalization would have been a great option. Sometimes the recordings are pretty bad that they come out pretty bad. There is no way in the Bryston to tame this. I agree with James on the room correction theory and the malaise but I think at this price pint the user should have the option to select.

3. I have a REL G1 that has no room correction. If you have a bump at the crossover frequency there is nothing that can be done to eliminate that. Even a JL's equlalization is applied to highest peak. If your desire is to achieve a truly flat response good luck with the Bryston. YOu will have to resort to room treatment.

[LordoftheRingsEE]

Originally Posted by a2k2000

I am using the Sp3 in a 2 Channel setup like rbuteau and am really impressed. I am not missing multichannel at all here. With movies this thing has an edge over the classe. I completely concur with the remote opinion - It is by far the worst remote I have used.

Here are a list of things I would like to have added to the Bryston.

1. A separate music and movie profile per input with the ability to switch between both - The Classe and the Cary have them.

2. No room correction but manual equalization would have been a great option. Sometimes the recordings are pretty bad that they come out pretty bad. There is no way in the Bryston to tame this. I agree with James on the room correction theory and the malaise but I think at this price pint the user should have the option to select.

-----Yes, a digital Parametric EQ with Frequency and Q adjustable. ...And in the subwoofer area (from 20 Hz to 100 Hz).
...Levels in 0.25dB increments adjustable.

Sixty bands per each channel? ...Twenty in the subwoofer channel alone. ...Times three or four subwoofers?

3. I have a REL G1 that has no room correction. If you have a bump at the crossover frequency there is nothing that can be done to eliminate that. Even a JL's equlalization is applied to highest peak. If your desire is to achieve a truly flat response good luck with the Bryston. YOu will have to resort to room treatment.

-----...And in combination with a good quality separate Auto Room EQ system. ...And I mean "real good".