AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Shunyata Research

Shunyata Research Designing Silent Systems for recording, film and music

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:16 PM
Antonmb's Avatar
Antonmb Antonmb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest Washington (Mt Baker foothills)
Posts: 9,121
Default Speaker cables single vs bi-wire

I have an opportunity to upgrade my speaker cables (currently 5-year-old Ztron Cobras) before the end of the year to Alphas (Sigma are out of the budget unfortunately.) I can do either single or bi-wire to my Amati Futuras. I’ve never bi-wired before, anyone have any thoughts on what the improvement might be and whether it’s worth doing?
__________________
Tony
D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2

Last edited by Antonmb; 12-04-2019 at 09:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:41 PM
jameslrock's Avatar
jameslrock jameslrock is offline
Greetings from NC


 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,564
Default

This will be interesting.
__________________
Two Channel: McIntosh C2300 preamp, MC601 amps x2, MR88 tuner, MEN220; Esoteric K-03X; Aurender N100C 4TB; B&W 802D2 Diamonds, JL Audio F113V2 x 2 on Sound Anchor Sub Stands; VPI Classic Signature Piano Black, Ortofon Cadenza Black, VPI SDS, periphery ring, StillPoints center weight, Gingko Audio ClaraVu Dust Cover CT, KAB SpeedStrobe, Dr. Feickert Analogue Protractor; Sonos with W4S digital modification to W4S Remedy to Esoteric; W4S PS1 Linear Power unit for the 2x Remedy and Recovery w/ W4S PS1 Power Cord; Torus RM20; Wireworld Silver Series 7 Electra/Starlight/Eclipse cables and WW Platinum Power Cord for Amps and Platinum USB for Aurender; KLAUDIO RCM; Steve Blinn Designs extra wide three shelf rack; GIK Acoustics panels and bass traps, StillPoints Ultra Minis under all gear and Stillpoint Ultra SS under amps and speakers.
Home Theater 7.2: McIntosh MX150, MC452, MC207; B&W 803D2 Diamonds, HTM2 center, CWM7.3 surrounds; JLAudio F112 x2 subs; Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 65" Studio Master Plasma; Oppo 205; Crown FM Two Tuner; Sonos with W4S Remedy; Apple TV; Furman Elite 20 amp PFi x2; WW and AQ Cables/Cords; Salamander Synergy Four Bay Cabinet
Office 2ch with McIntosh vintage refurbished gear: McIntosh MC275V6 x2 tube amps; Klipsch Cornwall I vintage speakers (1982); AQ Dragonfly Red DAC/Jitterbug/cables; PS Audio Dectet Power Center; Mcintosh C28, MC2105, MR78 (with mod), MQ101, each with original walnut cabinet and panloc (1976), MCD7008 (1996), ML1C speakers (1976); Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable (1976) with new SoundSmith SMMC20CL cartridge (2015); Salamander double rack
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:51 PM
Cohibaman's Avatar
Cohibaman Cohibaman is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 4,578
Default Speaker cables single vs bi-wire

Hey Tony,

To me, that’s slightly ambiguous because of the way the term is thrown around so much. Paint a picture of both ends of the current cable(s) and the proposed cable(s).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:52 PM
audioguy3107's Avatar
audioguy3107 audioguy3107 is offline
Go Dawgs
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 5,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonmb View Post
I have an opportunity to upgrade my speaker cables (currently 5-year-old Ztron Cobras) before the end of the year to Alphas (Sigma are out of the budget unfortunately.) I can do either single or bi-wire to my Amati Futuras. I’ve never bi-wired before, anyone have any thoughts on what the improvement might be and whether it’s worth doing?
Tony - this is a controversial topic....you can read all kinds of opinions as to whether or not it makes a difference. Some speaker manufacturers will recommend it while others say it’s not important. I don’t think you would have a clear cut answer in your system unless you tried it in home. Any way that you could do an in home demo before buying? If I were buying new cables anyway and my speakers were bi-wireable, I probably would go ahead if the price difference wasn’t a big deal but if they were way more expensive I probably wouldn’t without a trial.

- Buck
__________________
Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: dCS Rossini CD/SACD transport, dCS Rossini DAC/streamer/master clock. Analog: Brinkmann Taurus table, Lyra Etna Lambda, Audio Research Ref. Phono 3
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:05 PM
Audiophilehi's Avatar
Audiophilehi Audiophilehi is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 1,695
Default

Tony....I’m in the camp of Bi-wire makes a difference. Just make sure it’s a true Bi-wire. You need to have two separate pairs of speaker cables. Not the Bi-wire like Wireworld offers.

I previously used the Bi-wire speakers cables from Wireworld and thought they sounded great until I ran two separate Wireworld cables. The music opened up and had more impact.
__________________
Paul

Speakers: Von Schweikert VR-5 Anniversary MK II Front L/R, LCR-35 Center, VR-1 Rear L/R Sub: JL Audio F113
Amps: PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono, McIntosh MC207 Pre-Amp PS Audio BHK Signature and Gold Note PH-10 Phono Stage/PSU-10 Power Supply
Turntable: VPI HR-X 12.7 TONEARM (2) and SDS, Stillpoints LPI
Tape Deck Otari 5050B II2
Music Server: Aurender N100H
Cartridges: Ortofon Cadenza Black, Lyra Helikon Mono Digital Source: Oppo UDP-205 DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE
SSP: Marantz AV8801 Cables: Wireworld Electra 7 (P) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7, Shunyata Delta NR (I) Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 (S)
Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (USB)
AC Power Regeneration: PS Audio DirectStream P15 Power Plant and Shunyata Denali 6000s V2.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:52 PM
djwhog's Avatar
djwhog djwhog is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophilehi View Post
Tony....I’m in the camp of Bi-wire makes a difference. Just make sure it’s a true Bi-wire. You need to have two separate pairs of speaker cables. Not the Bi-wire like Wireworld offers.

I previously used the Bi-wire speakers cables from Wireworld and thought they sounded great until I ran two separate Wireworld cables. The music opened up and had more impact.
ditto. and of course if you have speakers and jumpers etc to remove to take advantage of. Cant hurt separate signals to the mids and tweeters and woofers.

Ivan has some tri-wire gear I recall too go for it and enjoy!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:26 AM
Antonmb's Avatar
Antonmb Antonmb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest Washington (Mt Baker foothills)
Posts: 9,121
Default

Shunyata’s bi-wiring would be 1 connector at the amp, diverging to two cables inside the insulation, ending in two terminations at the speaker. The price difference isn’t that great, about a grand, but there’s no way to audition since I need a custom length (4.5 meters).
__________________
Tony
D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:47 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

One of my upcoming projects is to bi-wire my Amati Futura's. I am currently running the stock jumpers and a single cable to each speaker. The biggest improvement I've achieved so far is to ditch all the banana plugs and switch to spades. This will be interesting.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-05-2019, 09:54 AM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is offline
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 78,485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
One of my upcoming projects is to bi-wire my Amati Futura's. I am currently running the stock jumpers and a single cable to each speaker. The biggest improvement I've achieved so far is to ditch all the banana plugs and switch to spades. This will be interesting.
Tom... Ditch the stock jumpers for another big improvement.
__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:01 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

The theory behind bi-wiring is this:

Even if your cables have very low resistance and inductance, they appear in series between the amplifier and your speaker. Many speakers have significant impedance dips in the bass region. By running separate cables from the amp to the HF and LF speaker terminals, the current from the LF signals does not flow through the HF cable. So any cable-induced anomalies from the LF current are separated from the signal driving the HF drivers.

What makes this even more compelling is that bass drivers are non-linear and act as a kind of a diode, needing more current to move the cone in one direction than the other. This non-linear behavior manifests itself in higher distortion at the speaker end of the cable than at the amplifier end.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video