Tried reverse polarity on my sasha 2

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by marsalis

From your reluctance to answer, I gather that Time syncronicity does not equal Time coherence at the listening position.
So, can anyone explain the actual effect of Time syncronicity? I gather you can align/move drivers, but if time coherency can’t be achieved, (i.e., you can’t align all frq at the listening position), what is the purpose of doing this?

I am in Monaco setting up a WAMM for a client.

[Supermerio]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

I am in Monaco setting up a WAMM for a client.

Wow!

Cool job.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by marsalis

..
So, can anyone explain the actual effect of Time syncronicity? I gather you can align/move drivers, but if time coherency can%u2019t be achieved, (i.e., you can%u2019t align all frq at the listening position), what is the purpose of doing this?

Yes the speaker is aligned in time at the listening position. Were you to pulse test with the resolution (think microseconds, not milliseconds) necessary, you could duplicate the measurement.

The reason Wilson has such detailed settings for proper speaker set up is to create the proper alignment at the listener's chosen position. Should that change, so too do the settings. These settings are not based on putting a tape measure to each driver but on the measured time from input at the speaker terminals to arrival at the listener's ear.

When doing setups such as the WAMM on which I am currently working in Monaco, I provide engineering with the exact listening distance and ear height (our manual based charts show differences of 6 inches listening distance and 1 inch listening heights) so they can generate the most precise settings possible for the particular installation.

[marsalis]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Yes the speaker is aligned in time at the listening position. Were you to pulse test with the resolution (think microseconds, not milliseconds) necessary, you could duplicate the measurement.

The reason Wilson has such detailed settings for proper speaker set up is to create the proper alignment at the listener's chosen position. Should that change, so too do the settings. These settings are not based on putting a tape measure to each driver but on the measured time from input at the speaker terminals to arrival at the listener's ear.

When doing setups such as the WAMM on which I am currently working in Monaco, I provide engineering with the exact listening distance and ear height (our manual based charts show differences of 6 inches listening distance and 1 inch listening heights) so they can generate the most precise settings possible for the particular installation.

Thank you for your reply, yes, I understand that the drivers can be aligned, BUT unless you are Time-coherent from the start, which means you did not mess up timing in the XO (Only 6db XO, no drivers phase revers, etc.), you are, from the get-go, already “out-of-sync.” So your speakers may be time-aligned at the listening position (although I couldn't find any measurements that will support this), but they can’t be time coherent. So what is the point??
BTW, microseconds resolution are in the megahertz frq realm. Not sure microphones can even measure it (and of course, no living creature will hear it either ). Sound will travel 3.5mm in one m/s, how
would anyone hold his head in such spot?
Also, could not find any reference to any medical research that shows that people can “reliably hear intervals below 10 microseconds”. I mean that would be hearing frqs above 100Khz

[crwilli]

IMG_3038.JPG

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by marsalis

Thank you for your reply, yes, I understand that the drivers can be aligned, BUT unless you are Time-coherent from the start, which means you did not mess up timing in the XO (Only 6db XO, no drivers phase revers, etc.), you are, from the get-go, already “out-of-sync.” So your speakers may be time-aligned at the listening position (although I couldn't find any measurements that will support this), but they can’t be time coherent. So what is the point??
BTW, microseconds resolution are in the megahertz frq realm. Not sure microphones can even measure it (and of course, no living creature will hear it either ). Sound will travel 3.5mm in one m/s, how
would anyone hold his head in such spot?
Also, could not find any reference to any medical research that shows that people can “reliably hear intervals below 10 microseconds”. I mean that would be hearing frqs above 100Khz

I will simply say that your understanding of time correct is a bit dated.

No one said one microsecond adjustment, though you might check the calibrations on a WAMM regarding what intervals can be adjusted.

As for measurements, since there is no standard speaker test that replicates what we are measuring, why would you see any tests?

If you wish to find the research, think "fight or flight." It's pretty straightforward actually.

If you simply wish to discuss that tired old 6dB/oct, positive electrical phase only position, life is too short. There are many speakers you can buy, or more likely, design. Please enjoy.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Attachment 59872

Wilson seems to attract them like flies to honey.

[marsalis]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Wilson seems to attract them like flies to honey.

No need for hostility, I am/was trying to understand your logic. You go through great length adjusting something that I still am not clear to what it is, you provided many words but little help, and when I ask for clarifications or empirical data, I am considered a troll (and a fly)? Thank you very much, and I am sorry I bothered you, after all, like you said, "it's pretty straightforward actually", I think I do understand it all now...

[tima]

Dave Wilson: "The placement of the drivers relative to each other affects the synchronicity of the alignment of the leading edge of the transient."

I think he is talking about the timing of the arrival of the 'signal' at the ears. Suppose the first beat of a measure includes notes from a double bass, horn, and clarinet - a range of frequencies coming from multiple drivers. The goal is the syncronous arrival of those notes at the ear.

In a sense we're talking about transit time; humans can detect microsecond differences in time arrival, particularly of higher frequency notes. The out of synch arrival of the notes from those instruments yields smudge while being in-sync yields clarity. The increasingly fine adjustments of Wilson drivers improved across their development. Setup allows adjustment in support of synchronicity to the level of a few microseconds.

At least that's my rudimentary understanding of time synchronicity.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by tima

Dave Wilson: "The placement of the drivers relative to each other affects the synchronicity of the alignment of the leading edge of the transient."

I think he is talking about the timing of the arrival of the 'signal' at the ears. Suppose the first beat of a measure includes notes from a double bass, horn, and clarinet - a range of frequencies coming from multiple drivers. The goal is the syncronous arrival of those notes at the ear.

In a sense we're talking about transit time; humans can detect microsecond differences in time arrival, particularly of higher frequency notes. The out of synch arrival of the notes from those instruments yields smudge while being in-sync yields clarity. The increasingly fine adjustments of Wilson drivers improved across their development. Setup allows adjustment in support of synchronicity to the level of a few microseconds.

At least that's my rudimentary understanding of time synchronicity.