Higher End DACs

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Yes, almost any certainly most, CD/SACD player will also allow you to connect an external Digital signal and convert it to an analog signal - Eg use it as a DAC.

Depends on what you want to spend. Perhaps $6000 for a used K-03X which gets you double DSD capability along with arguably the best disc spinner pedigree available would be a good target. You could look at a new K-05xs as a even newer technology, a warranty and potential benefits (I have no clue on $). If you want to spend more, likely any of the Esoteric players will give you great satisfaction of ownership.

As for downloading vs only streaming, That is my bias of wanting some feeling of ownership and the fact that I had a large legacy collection of CDs which I ripped to get my files started.

You could certainly just subscribe to Qobuz and not miss owning any of your music. Nobody would fault you for that given they stream in up to 24bit 192Hz streams. At some point, the quality of the source recording is more important than whether it is a CD, SACD or a stream of XX bits YYYhz.

Jump in.

thanks for the follow-up! I will keep you all posted, if interested!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by slowGEEZR

My system? Let's see, Wilson WP8, Pass Labs 100.5 amps, Pass Labs XP20 preamp, TTW GEM II, with a 42 lb. copper platter, BAT VK-P5 phono amp. Currently using my Soundsmith "The Voice" wood cartridge, rebuilt to current standards by Soundsmith. Tracking force I'm using is 1.5 grams. The digital side is irrelevant for this conversation, except to say it is pretty darn good, IMO, but no better than the best vinyl playback. Stereophile rated my DAC as Class A+when I bought it, but there have been many advances in DAC technology since then, though after I move, I am going to update it.

The cartridge has no trouble playing back the most dynamic records I own. It tracks wonderfully, which is because it has extremely low mass being suspended. Also, setup is key. Too many people don't realize the full potential of their analog rigs due to mediocre setup. I also use two subs (SVS-4000) and love bass and my system can play very low bass via records or digital. I currently have them set at 15db down, so as to blend in nicely.

Most new music is recorded digitally, so that is the way I purchase most newly recorded music. I have around 1700 record albums, which is not very many as compared to some of the posters here, but about 1000 of them have been purchased within the last dozen years, or so. I have close to 2 TB of digital music files. I would say that a higher percentage of them don't sound as good as the percentage of poor sounding records that I own. I am of the belief that the entire mastering through production is critical, in order to get great sound from either media. I have yet to hear older jazz via digital that beats the sound via records.

Wonderful system. I can't fathom 1,700 vinyl records. How do you keep up with them? Absolutely incredible. Hat's off to you!

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

i know the Schiit is very well regarded. I was a little wary of knowingly going into a digital platform that did not support MQA. I realize it’s debatable (both in terms of concept - which Schiit addresses fairly fully - and as a format, itself) but all things being equal I would prefer support for the format. After all, part of this would be the journey of hearing different playback, etc.

I'll be honest with you: the two most important factors for a digital recording are 1) the quality of the recording and the 2) quality of the mastering. These two factors alone exert more impact on the listening experience by far than the bit depth and sampling rate or any specifi format (PCM, DSD, MQA, etc.). I remember a comment I read at Elusive Disc about mastering guru Alan Yoshida, who developed the XRCD protocol, which is 16/44 Redbook PCM. The comment was if Alan Yoshida had mastered every digital recording ever released, we would have never needed SACD, HD-CD, DVD-Audio, MQA, blah, blah. I agree. And, as for DSD & MQA...Schiit is completely correct: why develop support for formats e.g. DSD or MQA that is less than 0.5% of all recordings?

Originally Posted by ufguy73

Is the Schiit so good, for the price point, that you guys would forego the MQA format entirely?

Yes. MQA will go the way of DSD, which had a similar brou-haha made about it 10 years ago. MQA is a scheme by Meridian to get paid at every step of the recording/mastering/distribution/mfr. licensing chain.

Originally Posted by ufguy73

Also, how would you say the Rega compares to the MT2? There is some precedent for spousal approval on Mcintosh aesthetics that could be quite handy

I'd get the Rega. If you ever decide to move up the TT ladder, the Rega will be considerably be easier to sell. I don't know of anyone buying used McIntosh TTs; used Regas get sold every day of the week.

[crwilli]

Stephen, Yoshida-san did not master every recording.

The SHM mastering of the Dire Straits albums on SACD are legendary IMHO. As a Dire Straits fan, I could care less if they are 1/1000 of the 0.5% of SACDs. I love them and can easily play them in a native format on my ROON/SILENZIO/K03x system.

For me, I am willing to pay for that success as much as some may pay for other priorities. Humbly, I think you are stating clear opinions that are not necessarily fact.

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I'll be honest with you: the two most important factors for a digital recording are 1) the quality of the recording and the 2) quality of the mastering. These two factors alone exert more impact on the listening experience by far than the bit depth and sampling rate or any specifi format (PCM, DSD, MQA, etc.). I remember a comment I read at Elusive Disc about mastering guru Alan Yoshida, who developed the XRCD protocol, which is 16/44 Redbook PCM. The comment was if Alan Yoshida had mastered every digital recording ever released, we would have never needed SACD, HD-CD, DVD-Audio, MQA, blah, blah. I agree. And, as for DSD & MQA...Schiit is completely correct: why develop support for formats e.g. DSD or MQA that is less than 0.5% of all recordings?



Yes. MQA will go the way of DSD, which had a similar brou-haha made about it 10 years ago. MQA is a scheme by Meridian to get paid at every step of the recording/mastering/distribution/mfr. licensing chain.



I'd get the Rega. If you ever decide to move up the TT ladder, the Rega will be considerably be easier to sell. I don't know of anyone buying used McIntosh TTs; used Regas get sold every day of the week.

thanks for the added considerations and thoughts on MQA and the TT!!

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Stephen, Yoshida-san did not master every recording.

The SHM mastering of the Dire Straits albums on SACD are legendary IMHO. As a Dire Straits fan, I could care less if they are 1/1000 of the 0.5% of SACDs. I love them and can easily play them in a native format on my ROON/SILENZIO/K03x system.

For me, I am willing to pay for that success as much as some may pay for other priorities. Humbly, I think you are stating clear opinions that are not necessarily fact.

Hey Craig,

Yep, fully acknowledge that these are just my opinions. But, being the empirically-minded scientist that I am, my opinons are also founded on my direct experiences, too.

Just for sake of accuracy, I never said that Alan Yoshida mastered every recording, I was only relating a point about the Audio Wave XRCD24 Blue Note series that was made on Elusive Disc.

I'm sure SHM mastering of the Dire Straits is superb, as you say. And, I've got a number of SACDs, particularly classical content, that are also excellent. And, I'm also not saying that aren't other superb mastering engineers, e.g. Steve Hoffman, Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman, etc, or the guys at Linn, for example. Of course there are. But I would posit the hypothesis is the reason the Dire Straits album sounds as good as it does is primarily because of the quality of the recording and mastering more so than because its on SACD as a format, per se.

My main point is that in "Audiophile-La-La-Land" there tends to be more concern over "techology" than other factors that, in my experience, have proven to be more important. Sometimes considerably more important. I've seen a lot of audiophiles get caught up in "technology for the sake of technology", with the assumption that the "tech" is all that matters. For example, guys putting huge amounts of money upgrading from the Schntiznit Reference pre to the Schiznit Signature Reference Platinum pre rather than doin' stuff like...fixing the room. Or implementing clean power.

10 years ago everyone was all worked up about DSD, now some are worked up in the same way about MQA.

And this gets back to my the point I was trying to make; in my experience, one can't unequivocally state that Redbook 16/44 is inherently inferior to MQA or even an LP; the quality of the recording and mastering is, in my experience, a larger factor than the specific format.

Cheers and thanks for weighing in for a great discussion.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Stephen, Yoshida-san did not master every recording.

The SHM mastering of the Dire Straits albums on SACD are legendary IMHO. As a Dire Straits fan, I could care less if they are 1/1000 of the 0.5% of SACDs. I love them and can easily play them in a native format on my ROON/SILENZIO/K03x system.

For me, I am willing to pay for that success as much as some may pay for other priorities. Humbly, I think you are stating clear opinions that are not necessarily fact.

Craig,

Great post...I fully agree! For the record, as many know I am a huge fan of XRCD and XRCD2, XRCD24 and related formats and the early work by Yoshida-san. It is worthwhile to note that Winston Ma took this format even further with his XRCD, XRCD2, XRCD24, K2HD (24bit, 100 Hz) and follow on work.

There are things out there leveraging DSD as well and the format is not dead by any means.

I agree with PumaCat's comments regarding 2 most important factors. We should throw in a 3rd for the record, that being quality of the remastering work and format chosen as well.

It is for all these reasons that I own analog, PCM and DSD-originating work using where applicable, remastered or origin on straight RBCD, XRCD(n), K2HD, DXD and DSD media formats.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

Craig,

Great post...I fully agree! For the record, as many know I am a huge fan of XRCD and XRCD2, XRCD24 and related formats and the early work by Yoshida-san. It is worthwhile to note that Winston Ma took this format even further with his XRCD, XRCD2, XRCD24, K2HD (24bit, 100 Hz) and follow on work.

There are things out there leveraging DSD as well and the format is not dead by any means.

I agree with PumaCat's comments regarding 2 most important factors. We should throw in a 3rd for the record, that being quality of the remastering work and format chosen as well.

It is for all these reasons that I own analog, PCM and DSD-originating work using where applicable, remastered or origin on straight RBCD, XRCD(n), K2HD, DXD and DSD media formats.

Hi Mark,
Thanks for joining in. Just a note about Alan Yoshida, if you haven't checked out any of his more recent work, specifically the Audio Wave XCRD24 Blue Note series, big reco from me...really superb. Joe Bob says, "Check it out."

When I was referring to mastering my original comments about format, specifically MQA, etc, I was including "re-mastering" as part of that. I should have mentioned in the first place, that so thanks for bringing it up and I agree with you on that point.

And yep, I've got digital content in all those formats you mention above, sometimes there's not an alternative. Particularly with classical repertoire, where much of the digital content is on SACD. My point regarding MQA specifically was that, in my view, the "fundamentals" play a bigger role than any specific format.

Cheers, mate.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Hi Mark,
Thanks for joining in. Just a note about Alan Yoshida, if you haven't checked out any of his more recent work, specifically the Audio Wave XCRD24 Blue Note series, big reco from me...really superb. Joe Bob says, "Check it out."

When I was referring to mastering my original comments about format, specifically MQA, etc, I was including "re-mastering" as part of that. I should have mentioned in the first place, that so thanks for bringing it up and I agree with you on that point.

And yep, I've got digital content in all those formats you mention above, sometimes there's not an alternative. Particularly with classical repertoire, where much of the digital content is on SACD. My point regarding MQA specifically was that, in my view, the "fundamentals" play a bigger role than any specific format.

Cheers, mate.

Hello...I was one of the first subscribers to the Audiowave Blue Note XRCD24 remasters, 20 on the shelf,...have been waiting less than patiently for several years post earthquake and tsunami devastation to the plant in Japan for Elusive Disc to get off their backside and finish the 5 remaining titles and offer more.

The first 20 are on a top-100 disc list out of a rather large collection for me here.

Numerous friends, vinyl junkies among them, have heard them here and swear they are the most amazing discs they have heard (as do I) and various people they could not hear anything that could be done better by vinyl.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Hey Craig,

Yep, fully acknowledge that these are just my opinions. But, being the empirically-minded scientist that I am, my opinons are also founded on my direct experiences, too.

Just for sake of accuracy, I never said that Alan Yoshida mastered every recording, I was only relating a point about the Audio Wave XRCD24 Blue Note series that was made on Elusive Disc.

I'm sure SHM mastering of the Dire Straits is superb, as you say. And, I've got a number of SACDs, particularly classical content, that are also excellent. And, I'm also not saying that aren't other superb mastering engineers, e.g. Steve Hoffman, Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman, etc, or the guys at Linn, for example. Of course there are. But I would posit the hypothesis is the reason the Dire Straits album sounds as good as it does is primarily because of the quality of the recording and mastering more so than because its on SACD as a format, per se.

My main point is that in "Audiophile-La-La-Land" there tends to be more concern over "techology" than other factors that, in my experience, have proven to be more important. Sometimes considerably more important. I've seen a lot of audiophiles get caught up in "technology for the sake of technology", with the assumption that the "tech" is all that matters. For example, guys putting huge amounts of money upgrading from the Schntiznit Reference pre to the Schiznit Signature Reference Platinum pre rather than doin' stuff like...fixing the room. Or implementing clean power.

10 years ago everyone was all worked up about DSD, now some are worked up in the same way about MQA.

And this gets back to my the point I was trying to make; in my experience, one can't unequivocally state that Redbook 16/44 is inherently inferior to MQA or even an LP; the quality of the recording and mastering is, in my experience, a larger factor than the specific format.

Cheers and thanks for weighing in for a great discussion.

Hi Stephen,

I was referring to the sentence - paraphrasing - if Alan Yoshida had mastered all CDs, there wouldn’t have been any need for other formats.

Perhaps but no or very few CDs I own come close to the fidelity of the SHM SACDS.

Absolutely no argument that the recording/mastering makes the music. Not the format. I suspect SACDs sound better in general to my ears than most CDs because they are remastered and there was more care out into the process but maybe not.

MQA is not anywhere on my radar since ceasing my Tidal subscription. ‘It’s dead to me’.

I appreciate this thread as well. Lots of good information and observations.