Breaking in 802D's

[BVLDARI]

Originally Posted by ariess

My dealer lent me his 802D's so I could test them with my gear. I am using a new Audio Research tube integrated, the VSi75, which runs 2 KT120's per channel. ARC says its 75 watts and very similar in amplifier capability as their REF75. I don't listen very loudly (80dB) and its a modest sized room. The speakers are rated at a sensitivity of 90db and the minimum impedance is 3.5 ohm, easier than the minimum 3.1 ohm for my previous 804D's.

I know every legitimate audiophile discussion must include the phrase, "these speakers love gobs of power" but my experience is that 75 watts of good tube power from Audio Research will work well, and beat the pants off a 200 watt solid state amp from a well known, mid tier audio company when I tried it.

Agreed. I can confirm that 200W Marantz Monos are enough and 450W McIntosh MC452 is "too much"... (although in my opinion the amplifiers sound different)

[Blackstone]

There is absolutely no reason to get the 804D2 if you can afford the 803. The 804 is balanced but the bottom end is lacking in comparison. It is simply a question of budget.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by ariess

Rebel man, I'd like to send you a PM. Are you accepting them?

You each have to be a subscriber to use PM.

[toddmorr]

i guess my point was, if you have total self control and can avoid creeping louder and louder over time, go for the 75w amp, otherwise you'll clip. And regret it.

[RebelMan]

Originally Posted by ariess

Rebel man, I'd like to send you a PM. Are you accepting them?

I can at HTGuide.

[RebelMan]

Originally Posted by toddmorr

i guess my point was, if you have total self control and can avoid creeping louder and louder over time, go for the 75w amp, otherwise you'll clip. And regret it.

It would take more than 101dB before that would happen, which is extremely loud. I would more concerned about the linearity of the amp than loudness.

[RebelMan]

Originally Posted by Blackstone

There is absolutely no reason to get the 804D2 if you can afford the 803. ... It is simply a question of budget.

Actually there are several reasons not to get the 803D2 that have nothing to do with budget. I can list an easy three. 1.) Stature: The 803D2s are physically imposing, visually more so than even the stoutly 802D2s. 2.) Dispersion: No reclining allowed and you better not slouch. The FST does not favor the tubeless designs nearly as much. 3.) Bass: I'm largely opposed to it BUT coupled with a decent subwoofer the combination will decimate the 803D2s. But you better know what you are doing when integrating one. I've spent a lot of time experimenting with the 803Ds and they are easily the most difficult speaker in the entire lineup to get dialed in. They can sound great once you get there but many installers are unlikely to go the distance.

[Blackstone]

Originally Posted by RebelMan

Actually there are several reasons not to get the 803D2 that have nothing to do with budget. I can list an easy three. 1.) Stature: The 803D2s are physically imposing, visually more so than even the stoutly 802D2s. 2.) Dispersion: No reclining allowed and you better not slouch. The FST does not favor the tubeless designs nearly as much. 3.) Bass: I'm largely opposed to it BUT coupled with a decent subwoofer the combination will decimate the 803D2s. But you better know what you are doing when integrating one. I've spent a lot of time experimenting with the 803Ds and they are easily the most difficult speaker in the entire lineup to get dialed in. They can sound great once you get there but many installers are unlikely to go the distance.

Interesting. Yes I suppose the 804 with a sub is a viable alternative.

No reclining because they are so tall? I didn't think of that.

[RebelMan]

Originally Posted by Blackstone

No reclining because they are so tall? I didn't think of that.

Correct and with spikes they are taller than the 800D2s on casters. Kal mentions in his review that the 804s get no respect but in reality it may be that the 803D/D2s don't. In all the years I have witnessed it, the 803Ds have never been setup to demo their strengths. The midrange simply sits too high almost 6" higher than the 804D2. I thought this would be a problem for the Marlan models also (specifically the 800D) but it isn't. Unfortunately for the 803Ds it's a big problem.

To deal with it you either have to sit a considerable distance back (much more than typically done in domestic settings) and/or tilt the speakers forward (using the spikes) which then causes some time smearing and/or you got to be fortunate enough to have a 4" platform from where to listen otherwise the 803Ds will sound just okay and certainly not well enough for their asking price.

[Blackstone]

Originally Posted by RebelMan

Correct and with spikes they are taller than the 800D2s on casters. Kal mentions in his review that the 804s get no respect but in reality it may be that the 803D/D2s don't. In all the years I have witnessed it, the 803Ds have never been setup to demo their strengths. The midrange simply sits too high almost 6" higher than the 804D2. I thought this would be a problem for the Marlan models also (specifically the 800D) but it isn't. Unfortunately for the 803Ds it's a big problem. To deal with it you either have to sit a considerable distance back (much more than typically done in domestic settings) and/or tilt the speakers forward (using the spikes) which then causes some time smearing and/or you got to be fortunate enough to have a 4" platform from where to listen otherwise the 803Ds will sound just okay and certainly not well enough for their asking price.

They are quite tall and come to think of it they did sound a bit out of focus in the smaller demo room where they were set up. I have the original N804 by the way. It is adequate. It is a little lean sounding. Very sensitive to where you sit in terms of sweet spot but even laying on the couch the midrange is in a good spot. Sitting up the midrange is at a perfect height for a smaller room.

I have always considered the 803D to be a compromised speaker for applications where 802 is not practical. I mean there is a purpose behind that midrange sci-fi housing on the 802. I mean the 802 is a serious installation. I can see how the positioning of the drivers could be a problem on the 803. When I bought my speakers the 803 was a different speaker entirely. Perhaps the 803D was designed for people of means with large rooms and wives with enough influence to veto the alien looking 802. People who entertain and stand up on occasion. Socialite audiophiles? lol

The 802D or 800D would be my choice if I had the space and the amplification. Honestly though my dad has the N802 (small room) and the rabbit hole goes DEEP with those speakers. There is no limit to how good they can sound. Every upstream upgrade and tweak yields a massive improvement. And they were brutal before every power cord was upgraded and every weak link was shored up. The 803D would not work in that room I am sure. So your point is well taken.