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Stillpoints Lower Your Noise Floor

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  #21  
Old 10-29-2012, 12:46 AM
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jazzhead jazzhead is offline
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[QUOTE=Olskool;384683]Jazzhead, I purchased the Ultra SS set of three and they are under my VS-115, is this the model you are running under your components? What do you think about using the Mini's under everything; I want to have a complete Still Point setup but don't want to break the bank to get there. Due to weight I expect I might have to go with the Ultra SS for my speakers??? Any thoughts you care to share??

Olskool .. I have the regular SS Ultras and not the minis . I have them hard hat facing up and find this the more effective position . I have no experience with the Mini's , but am sure that in keeping with the same family traits they would provide a positive cumulative effect to the one you are now experiencing, with them under your power amp. I will report back if I do manage to get my speakers Stillpointed and oh yes the ESS rack with the grid system to complete the chain , if I am able to dispose of my current Finite Elemente rack .
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2012, 12:56 AM
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Thanks for the info Jazzhead, I am looking forward to having an all Still Point setup. I don't think I can get to the rack for some time so will look into finding one of the wood racks he discussed in the articles (pre-owned). I am listening now and just cleaning up some of the issues as suggested and adding the Ultra SS's has really changed the character of my system and is a much more consistent, quality audio experience. i'm listening now and don't want to shut down for the night. By the way, it really seems to go well in my vinyl!
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  #23  
Old 10-29-2012, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whart

Grounding issues are bedeviling. I think you have to separate out several different things that may be going on: first, a good ground- usually that means a separate grounding rod or series of rods or other grounding network outside- sounds like you already have that. It is also likely in common with your house ground for code reasons. If you have separate dedicated lines, they can have a different ground potential, even though they all go to the same ground. That's one of the reasons the Brits typically plug their system into one receptacle and run a distribution box from there to their whole system- it eliminates the differences in ground potential between different outlets. Not so common in the US, what with big, power hungry amps that need current. Your Nordost distribution box is, I think, star grounded, so the outlets act as if they are seeing the same ground. There are also devices that allow you to externally 'star' ground various components, not in lieu of the ground on the AC plug/receptacle, but in addition to it. The Granite Audio device, which I have experimented with does that, and allows you to change the impedance of the different ground hook-ups but it is only modestly effective. The Tripoint products, at a much higher level, do something similar I think. And that may also be what the Entreq grounding product does. Some of this also has to do with how the various components are grounded at their chassis. And, how that, in turn, gets combined when components are connected via various cables to each other. That can create additional grounding issues, which is one of the reasons why, I think, people often 'lift' ground at a component through cheaters. There's a lot written on this that you can read on the Net. (And i'm not advocating using cheaters here, just saying, how different components are grounded internally adds another level of complication to thinking through your grounding harness or AC wiring, because they wind up getting connected to each other and grounding problems then crop up, beyond just getting the AC outlets correctly grounded). Somebody like JDandy can probably chime in here with technical expertise- I'm just telling you what I have learned having to deal with the issues; using very high efficiency horns, I have good reasons to get the noise floor as low as possible, and it makes a huge difference in the quality of the sound.
Roy has a separate ground wire that is accessible in his home listening room. There is a write up about Roy's home listening room and AC/grounding scheme somewhere on the Net. You can reach out to him, he is pretty accessible, and a very nice, knowledgeable guy who, in my estimation, asks the right questions.
I'm going a different route on my next room, using the big Equi=Tech Wall Cabinet. It is not a grounding solution, per se, but with a big isolation transformer, and balanced power, some of the issues associated with AC noise will hopefully disappear.
Thanks for the information Whart. What I understand you to say is good grounding is critical. Separate ground is a huge plus. I am not sure if I understood that the star ground plug coming off the QB4 distribution block can be run back to the separate ground point in addition to what is attached to the plug receptacles and going out into the ground? My major components, VS-115, LS-27, TT, CD player are direct into the QB-4 distribution block then into the dedicated 20 amp receptacles. Everything else is direct to the wall receptacles. It all seems to work out pretty well, but allways interested in making things more efficient and effective at performance. Thanks
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  #24  
Old 10-29-2012, 11:19 AM
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Oldskool, i will try to answer your question the best i can, but keep in mind I am not an EE:
First, the 'separate ground' is not really separate, in the sense that it is still in common with the ground to the rest of your house, unless you have a free-standing building and a separate commercial hook-up. There are code issues here, at least in the States, and I assume elsewhere in the world.
Second, I don't think there is improvement by running duplicate lines to ground from multiple pieces of equipment, the equipment is effectively daisy chained to each other, sharing a common ground point.
If everything on your system goes through a distribution block- (I am assuming the Nordost is star grounded but may be wrong, i can research it if you aren't sure), then running a separate grounding line from the nordost to your 'clean ground' may be a good idea. That's also something that you should reach out to Nordost about, and since Roy is affiliated with Nordost, he's surely going to be able to answer that question wearing his business rather than reviewer hat.
If you search the Net you will see an article and pictures of Roy's AC set up at home. You will see how he has a separate hook-up just for ground (subject to what i said above about it not really being separate from the rest of the house system grounding, at least so far as US domestic AC is concerned).
Based on the description of your system, where some components are not plugged into the distribution block, that's where the grounding potential differences exist. That is, there will be a 'difference' in ground between your Nordost block (and what's hooked up to it) and the dedicated lines. How do you solve that? That's where I think these external grounding devices come into play, like the Tripoint, and perhaps the Entreq (but I don't know enough about how the Entreq works to say). And the other issue which continues to baffle me includes how external star grounding really helps if the equipment is already grounded through a 3 pin plug to the wall receptacle. The other complication i mentioned is how each component is grounded internally, and the impact that has when each is interconnected, because they are sharing ground there.
Perhaps if JDandy is around, he can weigh in- he's got a lot more technical expertise than I do. If Roy is around, I'll see if he can answer this, perhaps post here.

Last edited by Whart; 10-29-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  #25  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:24 AM
Olskool Olskool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whart
Oldskool, i will try to answer your question the best i can, but keep in mind I am not an EE:
First, the 'separate ground' is not really separate, in the sense that it is still in common with the ground to the rest of your house, unless you have a free-standing building and a separate commercial hook-up. There are code issues here, at least in the States, and I assume elsewhere in the world.
Second, I don't think there is improvement by running duplicate lines to ground from multiple pieces of equipment, the equipment is effectively daisy chained to each other, sharing a common ground point.
If everything on your system goes through a distribution block- (I am assuming the Nordost is star grounded but may be wrong, i can research it if you aren't sure), then running a separate grounding line from the nordost to your 'clean ground' may be a good idea. That's also something that you should reach out to Nordost about, and since Roy is affiliated with Nordost, he's surely going to be able to answer that question wearing his business rather than reviewer hat.
If you search the Net you will see an article and pictures of Roy's AC set up at home. You will see how he has a separate hook-up just for ground (subject to what i said above about it not really being separate from the rest of the house system grounding, at least so far as US domestic AC is concerned).
Based on the description of your system, where some components are not plugged into the distribution block, that's where the grounding potential differences exist. That is, there will be a 'difference' in ground between your Nordost block (and what's hooked up to it) and the dedicated lines. How do you solve that? That's where I think these external grounding devices come into play, like the Tripoint, and perhaps the Entreq (but I don't know enough about how the Entreq works to say). And the other issue which continues to baffle me includes how external star grounding really helps if the equipment is already grounded through a 3 pin plug to the wall receptacle. The other complication i mentioned is how each component is grounded internally, and the impact that has when each is interconnected, because they are sharing ground there.
Perhaps if JDandy is around, he can weigh in- he's got a lot more technical expertise than I do. If Roy is around, I'll see if he can answer this, perhaps post here.
Whart, thanks for taking time to respond to this for me. You helped quite a bit with the explanation and the questions you posed at the end are exactly the ones I'm pondering about and what to do about the items not going through the distribution block.

On another note it seems you were right in the middle of the worst area of the storm, my prayers for you, your family and the many who may be affected by this weather event. Let us know how things are going for you when you get the chance and I'M SURE THE SENTIMENT IS ECHOED THAT WE (AA) MEMBERS ARE THINKING OF YOU WITH BEST WISHES!

Olskool
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  #26  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olskool View Post
Whart, thanks for taking time to respond to this for me. You helped quite a bit with the explanation and the questions you posed at the end are exactly the ones I'm pondering about and what to do about the items not going through the distribution block.

On another note it seems you were right in the middle of the worst area of the storm, my prayers for you, your family and the many who may be affected by this weather event. Let us know how things are going for you when you get the chance and I'M SURE THE SENTIMENT IS ECHOED THAT WE (AA) MEMBERS ARE THINKING OF YOU WITH BEST WISHES!

Olskool
Thanks, we made it through OK, a little tree damage, but our house has been here in one form or another since 1789, high on the foot of a mountain overlooking the Hudson River. We did a massive amount of drainage/water channeling work after the first of 6 or 7 'storms of the century' in the 9 years we've lived here and the rain/flood water wasn't really a problem, it was basically the storm surge from the wind and high tides. We were high enough and far enough away from the river to avoid that.
The neighboring town just got flattened, though. Big boats in the road, small houses on the river just flattened to matchsticks, mud and debris everywhere. The power is out here, and will remain so until the substations and infrastructure are brought back on line. This is the worst storm I've seen in 31 years in NY and probably my lifetime. There were several unfortunate deaths, mainly due to tree collapses. The city, i gather, is not in good shape, but there will be huge numbers of people coming from all over to help- I do remember 911 and the spirit of dealing with the aftermath is the same- people just roll up their sleeves and get to work. I have a few neighbors who have basically lost everything but what they had on their backs. But, it's only 'stuff.' Certainly makes you consider what's important. Be well. I'm on iPad 3G right now, only because no wi fi, or normal ethernet connection.
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