Questions for Peter

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by Symposium

Hi Jerome,

Thanks for your thoughtful questions; I'll do my best to provide some good answers.


Regarding your speaker's plinth, it's best to isolate the plinth from the resonance-cancelling power of the Svelte with some kind of hard footer device, such as a cone. The plinth of a loudspeaker is contributing to the overall resonant character of the loudspeaker, and if the Svelte is used directly against this plinth, it will "kill" the resonance of the structure, which can change the tonal balance of the loudspeaker. Using cones or some other kind of limited-isolation footer between the Svelte and the plinth will preserve the resonant quality of the plinth (something originally included in the designer's voicing of the speaker) but will provide a mechanical ground path for excess energy to drain into the Svelte or other platform, resulting in superior sonic performance from the speaker. Rollerblock Jr. will also work well in this function since it acts, like a cone, as a conductor of mechanical energy, but can further improve performance because of its accompanying ability to isolate and damp extreme low frequency waves, something no cone can do. This is quite important, since bass waves return to the speaker through the floor and can shake the speaker even as it is trying to produce music. This is the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome, and the Rollerblock is notable in this regard since it can completely break this kind of feedback loop, resulting in cleaner, more accurate bass transients, and lowered intermodulation distortion.

From the symposium website.

Deploying the Svelte under loudspeakers - the how and why

The speaker should be placed flat down onto the Svelte, WITHOUT spikes. While spikes are a useful and effective device, their function, when compared to a full Svelte Shelf, is somewhat limited. This is because the spike is an energy conduit between the speaker's cabinet and its support structure (in most cases, a floor). Excess mechanical energy which exists in the loudspeaker cabinet intermodulates with the action of the loudspeaker diaphragms - and this is true of dynamic or electrostatic speakers. As the cabinet shakes, it also moves the actual diaphragm through its support frame- subtlely blurring and muddying sound quality. The less extraneous mechanical energy in the speaker's cabinet, the better - all you want to be moving is the speaker's diaphragm - and the speaker frames and their supports should be absolutely solid and unmoving. Unfortunately, this is a virtual impossibility. Even with state of the art loudspeakers with extremely heavy resin-cast cabinets weighing hundreds of pounds, some energy will still be present, and this energy exerts a negative influence upon the speaker's movement. And while it's nearly impossible to completely eliminate this by-product of real speaker drivers in a physical world, it is possible to lessen the amount of energy. Spikes provide a good conduit out of the cabinet - but are rather small conductors. Various manufacturers have approached the problem by combining different metals or even carbon fiber or other materials in an effort to improve performance - but the problem is that, when all is said and done, they're still constrained by the basic spike itself, which is a limited pathway. The full Svelte, placed flat beneath the speaker, acts as a large "heat sink" that achieves the 3 D's of vibration control: Damps, Drains, and Dissipates. Its stainless steel top reduces spurious resonances in the speaker cabinet itself, and the large contact area available can now transfer more energy out of the cabinet, where much of it can be dissipated as heat by the Svelte Shelf.

I am trying to understand the two paragraphs above and how the deployment of Svelte under a loudspeaker with or without a plinth is different.

I am using my svelte shelf under my plinth which sits directly on hardwood flooring.

They made a nice improvement to the lower end. Also the imaging and soundstage improved.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Pyro

From the symposium website.

Deploying the Svelte under loudspeakers - the how and why

The speaker should be placed flat down onto the Svelte, WITHOUT spikes. While spikes are a useful and effective device, their function, when compared to a full Svelte Shelf, is somewhat limited. This is because the spike is an energy conduit between the speaker's cabinet and its support structure (in most cases, a floor). Excess mechanical energy which exists in the loudspeaker cabinet intermodulates with the action of the loudspeaker diaphragms - and this is true of dynamic or electrostatic speakers. As the cabinet shakes, it also moves the actual diaphragm through its support frame- subtlely blurring and muddying sound quality. The less extraneous mechanical energy in the speaker's cabinet, the better - all you want to be moving is the speaker's diaphragm - and the speaker frames and their supports should be absolutely solid and unmoving. Unfortunately, this is a virtual impossibility. Even with state of the art loudspeakers with extremely heavy resin-cast cabinets weighing hundreds of pounds, some energy will still be present, and this energy exerts a negative influence upon the speaker's movement. And while it's nearly impossible to completely eliminate this by-product of real speaker drivers in a physical world, it is possible to lessen the amount of energy. Spikes provide a good conduit out of the cabinet - but are rather small conductors. Various manufacturers have approached the problem by combining different metals or even carbon fiber or other materials in an effort to improve performance - but the problem is that, when all is said and done, they're still constrained by the basic spike itself, which is a limited pathway. The full Svelte, placed flat beneath the speaker, acts as a large "heat sink" that achieves the 3 D's of vibration control: Damps, Drains, and Dissipates. Its stainless steel top reduces spurious resonances in the speaker cabinet itself, and the large contact area available can now transfer more energy out of the cabinet, where much of it can be dissipated as heat by the Svelte Shelf.

I am trying to understand the two paragraphs above and how the deployment of Svelte under a loudspeaker with or without a plinth is different.

I am using my svelte shelf under my plinth which sits directly on hardwood flooring.

They made a nice improvement to the lower end. Also the imaging and soundstage improved.

Rob,

I think that the only way to find out what is the best is to try both solutions.
Svelte as you use it, and with spikes between the Svelte and the plinth of the EB1i.
Cheers,
Jérôme

[AudioNut]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Rob,

I think that the only way to find out what is the best is to try both solutions.
Svelte as you use it, and with spikes between the Svelte and the plinth of the EB1i.
Cheers,
Jérôme

I experimented with my Svelte pads in a variety of configurations, spikes under the Sveltes, spikes between the Sveltes and my speakers.

I tried several types of spikes - aluminum, steel, Goldmund spikes, some sort of composite spikes, etc., etc.

On my Avalon Eidolons, the speaker wires are connected under the speakers, and there is a port on the bottom, and they require a "spacer" of some sort. Avalon furnishes what they feel is the ideal spike with their speakers, and naturally I tried those spikes.

I found the sound to be good, but not great using any type of spikes along with the Svelte pads.

I then tried a set of RollerBlock Jr's under the Svelte Pad - and again I was not completely satisfied.

But, then, I tried putting the Svelte Pads directly on the floor and putting a set of three RollerBlock Jr's (titanium balls) between each of the speakers and the Svelte pads and AUDIO NIRVANA!!!!!

The soundstage opened up wall to wall and then some. The very refined detailing of the Eidolons was improved by at least 3X. The low bass performance was extended, every aspect of the speaker's performance was improved to the point where the my Eidolons sounded better than I had ever heard them, and by a wide margin.

I have also tried the same configuration under my Audio Physic Caldera 3 speakers with the same result. SUPERB !!!

Peter at Symposium had told me that the configuration I'm using is not the best or ideal use for his products - but in my case - it really worked.

[Pyro]

Sounds like each of us will need to do some experimenting with our setups.

[Pyro]

Answers from PMC about plinths and effects on their floorstanding speakers.

"The plinths add stability and sets the height of vent from the floor. This provides a faster cleaner bass."

"All the floorstanders have their final voicing done with all the elements that make up the design , including grilles and plinths/spikes."