#21
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My Revel F208's are in a horrible living room too. Left speaker gets a bounce off a side wall of sliding glass door, right speaker has no side wall and feeds a huge open space.
Great thing about Revel is the wide dispersion from the tweeter wave guide. I have no acoustic treatment other than closing the drapery which kills the glass bounce. I have to sit dead center between the front and rear wall so I'm in the bass null, but the speakers still sound great. Floyd Toole says you don't need much treatment when the speakers have wide dispersion and off axis response is similar to on axis response. His research resulted in the Revel designs. Optimize speaker and listener locations based on the room and put the equipment where it needs to be. Amps between speakers for short speaker cables, short runs of unbalanced interconnects. Vibration and acoustic isolation for the turntable. There are a lot of ways to measure and smooth out the frequency response in your room. You want to get the most out of those Studio2's. Last edited by Rex Anderson; 08-10-2017 at 07:14 PM. |
#22
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The wide dispersion is one reason these speakers were attractive to us. We are grateful that the sound stage is excellent (wide, tall, deep, precise) as they stand, in my best guess eye-ball position.
These puppies weigh 112 pounds each. Tweaking their positions is hard work!
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l MA7900 Integrated Amp l Sonus Faber Concerto Speakers l Clearaudio Performance Turntable w/Ortofon Credenza Cartridge l Rega Saturn CD Player l Marantz Tuner l PlayStation-4 l Transparent MM2 Cables & Power l |
#23
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If you can get your hands on an MEN220 to demo, that may be what you are looking for.
Adding room correction to my system was the single biggest bass improvement that I have ever did. I am a believer now for room effects, so it sounds like that could be a factor. I have a friend running more power hungry speakers with 100wpc, so I'd bet room is a bigger factor vs. your power. Quote:
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Main > Aurender N10/N100 / Antipodes K50 > Aries Cerat Kassandra mk2 - Playback Designs Dream DAC > D'agostino Momentum HD > PS Audio P10 > D'Agostino S250 > Sonus Faber Aida / REL S812 Six Pack + 4 JL Audio F113 Fathoms > B&W Signature HTM > Anthem Statement D2v > Mcintosh MC205 > Focal 1000 (side surrounds) > Bryston TIW (rear surrounds) Secondary System > Aurender N100h> AMR777SE > D'agostino Momentum Integrated > Wilson Sasha DAW |
#24
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Okie dokie. In response to Rex and Grasshopper's excellent advice (the MEN220 is an awesome idea but not actionable right at the moment) we centered the turntable on the credenza to get it out of the peak node and into an area where the energy levels were't shaking it.
We had a dramatic demonstration of this effect before we made the move, as we were experimenting. We turned up Leonard Cohen's Waiting for the Miracle to volume level 65 on the amplifier to form a baseline. A feedback loop occurred and the right channel drivers started bouncing like kids in one of those inflatable play pens, and then the amp's power guard kicked in. Yikes. Let's not do that again. I discussed the issue with my wife. She concurred that the television was not really very important but that the sound was, so we removed the television and centered the turntable on the credenza, giving its some breathing room away from the speakers. We also moved the facing sofa out of the center of the room, relocated the Eames chair to the bookshelf in the newly opened space, and gave it another try. The result? It is currently playing at level 75% and doing wonderfully. No feedback, no seismic waves, no distortion. Bass is awesome. Mid and treble are seamless. The Revel's sound like Devore point source speakers on a female vocalist jazz track... except they are playing Mr. Cohen with a chorus. Tonal balance is coherent and event across the board. Very awesome results. Now to unplug the amp from the Powerwave and see if it breathes any better with a direct wall connection. I will post pictures if I can figure out how to do it.
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l MA7900 Integrated Amp l Sonus Faber Concerto Speakers l Clearaudio Performance Turntable w/Ortofon Credenza Cartridge l Rega Saturn CD Player l Marantz Tuner l PlayStation-4 l Transparent MM2 Cables & Power l |
#25
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Turntable positioning
Does putting the table in front of the speakers, particularly at above moderate volume affect the sound?
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#26
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The turntable being too close to the speakers definitely impacted the sound. We had the record player and the television on the credenza. The credenza is not large enough comfortably to support both, so the TV was off center to make room for the turntable, and the turntable was on the left side of the credenza, much too close to the left channel speaker.
Yesterday evening we decided simply to remove the television. This allowed us to put the record player in the center of the credenza, far away from either speaker. This was a huge improvement. The system is clear as a bell as far as the amp can push it. In keeping with Rex's advice, we also measured the tracking force. Recommended is 2.3 grams, and it was at 3 grams. I adjusted it back to 2.3. Finally, we adjusted the speaker positions for better balance. The result of all these efforts? The sound is amazing - vastly more detailed and dynamic than before, and no comparison to at all to our old speakers. I have no doubt further isolation will improve the low level resolution in the turntable even further. The LP sound is so rewarding now that I have trouble picturing how it could improve, but with these speakers, who knows? CDs are a joy. I had all but stopped listening to CDs because they tended to sound flat, to me. This I attributed (mistakenly, it seems) to CDs generally being poorly recorded and lacking dynamics. Now I am reliving my affair with the CD collection and enjoying every minute.
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l MA7900 Integrated Amp l Sonus Faber Concerto Speakers l Clearaudio Performance Turntable w/Ortofon Credenza Cartridge l Rega Saturn CD Player l Marantz Tuner l PlayStation-4 l Transparent MM2 Cables & Power l Last edited by BWB75; 08-11-2017 at 01:10 PM. |
#27
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Not sure what you know, so don't take offense to my advice.
Stereo listening for best phantom center image requires sitting at the apex of an equilateral triangle. Speakers should be toed in, tweeters aimed at your ears. You can play with toe in a bit to adjust the image. The more precise you are with getting the speakers perfectly placed (same distance from back wall, same toe in angle etc), the better things sound. I liked the sound of my F208's best with the spikes installed. To hear some well recorded bass and kick drum, try Donald Fagen's CD "Morph the Cat". I use it for evaluating hi fi speakers and tuning PA systems. Happy to hear you are making progress and solving problems. |
#28
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Quote:
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#29
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Quote:
He might already know that, I was just trying to be helpful. If you go back and read his first post and the others following it, my response might make more sense. Otherwise, sorry if it bothered you. Have a nice day. |
#30
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nah, I didn't go back to the previous posts, gotcha ......
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