Confuse: REF75 or REF150

[bvdiman]

Originally Posted by guitardave

I cannot imagine the Ref 150 clipping. What preamp were you using? It must be used with a truly balanced preamp.

Main preamp was/still FMA 268. Had ARC REF 5, later also a REF 5SE for a while (to use with REF 150). I believe they are all true balanced design.
*Not clipping as in actual sound breaking up, but reaching a point where it would not go any louder when turned up further with presentation seemingly distancing away instead.

[Bobvin]

I'm content with the REF75 driving Alexias in a large 16' x 29' x 9' room that does not close, i.e. It is open to the the rest of the house. The amp does not appear strained in any way, though I only have 73 hours and haven't gone through my collection. Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Revisited" on vinyl, played at 95 - 105+ db, was a real treat. At that volume the REF75 needles moved quite a bit but the amp was always well composed.

[soundslikemusic]

Hi Bobvin

Thanks for the insight... Alexias should be harder to drive than any of the speakers i currently have. And your room is a lot bigger than mine.
I think the REF75 should be good for me, though tempted with the REF150 due to extra headroom for future speakers....

[Bobvin]

I might be selling my Ref75 w KT150 to go to GS150. Only has 73hrs.

[Priaptor]

Originally Posted by Bobvin

I might be selling my Ref75 w KT150 to go to GS150. Only has 73hrs.

Why did your post NOT surprise me.

[bvdiman]

Originally Posted by Bobvin

I might be selling my Ref75 w KT150 to go to GS150. Only has 73hrs.

Nice. Nice..

My brother was using REF150 when using Sasha. When he upgraded to Alexia we had a chance to compare REF150 to REF210 w/KT120s (at Dealer). Although all agree that the newer REF is overall more refined sounding, but the presence of more power/headroom was undeniable. At once we heard more hall-space and a grandeur presentation, as well more dynamic/authoritative low to upper bass. Ultimately, he kept the REF150 considering his room is smaller than dealer's, and he's more into the music than all these petty gear thing/improvements we A'philes do--I'm the poison. Pretty sure your Alexia too would benefit from the doubled extra watts. Would love to hear your feedback on new GS150 vs REF75/KT150s in your system.

Sasha/Alexia
IMG-20130831-00110_edit.jpg

REF150/REF210
IMG-20130831-00112_edit1.jpg

[jpgr4blu]

Hi Bvidman:
I had the Ref 210s in for listening at my home against the Ref 150. There may have been an extremely slight advantage in the low end in the Ref 210s which I think has been more than overcome since then with the KT 150 tubes in my Ref 150. But the Ref 150s overall sounded much more refined and real to me.
The Ref 210s had more hall space, grandeur and "room" in the sound. I attributed that to the monoblock design of the Ref 210s. On balance, I made the same choice as your brother and agree with each and every conclusion that you and your brother reached.
Although I haven't had the Ref 250s in house, I imagine they would be the best of both worlds ---at a cost.

[bvdiman]

Originally Posted by jpgr4blu

Hi Bvidman:
I had the Ref 210s in for listening at my home against the Ref 150. There may have been an extremely slight advantage in the low end in the Ref 210s which I think has been more than overcome since then with the KT 150 tubes in my Ref 150. But the Ref 150s overall sounded much more refined and real to me.
The Ref 210s had more hall space, grandeur and "room" in the sound. I attributed that to the monoblock design of the Ref 210s. On balance, I made the same choice as your brother and agree with each and every conclusion that you and your brother reached.
Although I haven't had the Ref 250s in house, I imagine they would be the best of both worlds ---at a cost.

Hi jpgr4blu,
From my experience with REF150 and reading up strengths of KT150 led into believing that it'll only add up into making an already good amp great.. Congrats!
Fuller mids, better delineated images and bass control were amongst traits I sometime longed for from REF150 which seems to be well/properly addressed to by new KT150.
Now, how I wish I had not sold mine before trying them with KT150s, hence my interest in new GS150. What was your immediate impression through just switching out tubes? Running them with same bias? Are they properly run-in now ~ 300hrs+? Cheers.

[soundslikemusic]

I've been hearing that the REF75 and the REF150 can take the KT150 tubes.
Some say, ARC does not recommend it.
What is the real score here ?
Does it void warranty if to use KT150 tubes on either amps ?

[jpgr4blu]

Hi bvdiman:
All of the things you have referred to have improved with the KT 150s. IMHO it is not quite a component upgrade level change, but it is noticeable. To me, it is about the same difference as the KT120 was to the 6550 tube for those who are familiar. I am led to believe by a few people close to ARC that they consider the GS 150 a better sounding amp than the Ref 150 but it is always with the proviso that the Ref 150 has KT120s and the GS150 has KT150s. Other trusted people inside ARC have said that there is no noticeable difference between a the two amps when both use the KT150. Someday I hope to make the comparison myself. Until then, I'm not convinced of the need (beyond looks) of the GS150. I hear it's already backordered primarily by the Asian market.


Note:The KT150s may not be fully broken in yet (about 20 hours) and I adjusted the bias to mirror the bias on the KT120s. Piece of cake.