S5 owners. - How far from the back wall

[BlueFox]

I have a pair of S5s arriving next week, and since they weigh almost 200 pounds each I want the first setup to be close to the final setup. Since they are sealed speakers I am wondering if placement from the back is as critical as with ported speakers. What distance from the front baffle to the rear wall do you suggest?

[S1chen]

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I have a pair of S5s arriving next week, and since they weigh almost 200 pounds each I want the first setup to be close to the final setup. Since they are sealed speakers I am wondering if placement from the back is as critical as with ported speakers. What distance from the front baffle to the rear wall do you suggest?

If you are going after toner balance and imaging. there is no difference in the setup between the sealed box and ported. They are all box speaker.

Bud, I think the fact the S5's are a sealed box does make them easier to place. Certainly review commentary suggests they are easier to place than many other speakers such as the Wilson Alexia's. I have a challenging room as the area behind my speakers is not even, so in my situation it was an important consideration to have speakers which were non-critical with placement. I took some measurements of the distance behind my speakers. There is 450mm to the hot water cupboard behind my LH speaker, whilst there is 280mm to the diagonal steel support beam behind my RH speaker, otherwise 1170mm to the rear wall. I have my S5's placed along the long wall in a near field listening position as per the Cardas Room Setup Guide. With my open hardwood stairs & atrium, somehow it all works well. But I think the S5's non-critical nature helps. The Cardas Setup guide is a good starting point, but if you have a bit more freedom you could get your room professionally measured to guide to you find the best room placement for both your speakers and listening position. I have less options, so I focused more on getting the distances right between my speakers in relation to the listening position. I attached a couple of photos of my room showing the speaker positioning.

Cheers,

[CLEE]

Congrats Bud. I hope you will enjoy the S5. Yes, I agree with David that the S5, being a sealed box design, is easier to position. Certainly I found it easier than my previous Wilson which is a ported design. Martine Colloms in his review, also commented similarly (see http://www.bm.rs/Magico/Magico%20S-5...DEC%202013.pdf). I position mine ~3 ft from the front wall (measured from the back of the speaker). The speakers are also ~3 ft from the respective side walls. They are ~8.5 ft apart. I haven't experimented with positioning seriously yet and the speakers are still not on their spikes. But already, the bass performance - definition, tightness and coherence with the midrange - is very good and most enjoyable.

[JRDesign]

Mr room isn't huge (~16x18') but mine are 21" to the rear of the speaker from the back wall. Tight, tuneful, sound amazing!

[jazzman]

3-5 feet from the back wall is a good start. But there is no generic answer, it really depends on the room. You clearly want to make measurements of the bass response, and play around , moving speakers a few inches at a time. When you have found the position with the flatter bass response, then you can spike your speakers. It is not so difficult, in less than 2hrs you are done. Strongly suggest you go through this procedure AFTER you finish break in (normally >1000 hours, but at >500 hours you are already 90% there) - just let them play continuously at normal level (no burn in CD which can kill drivers!!, the only one I would recommend is Isotek full system enhancer, at moderate to normal listening volume).

Keep also in mind that even more important than distance from back wall is overall symmetry. Width and precision of your imaging is strongly influenced by how symmetric is your overall set up (i.e., same distance from side walls, same distance from back wall, listener at same distance from side walls, etc)
hope it helps

[CLEE]

jazzman, thanks for the good advice. I don't have symmetry in the listening area, which is about 16' x 17.5', but with one side opening to another area near the rear. I use minor difference in toe-in to provide some (but not adequate) compensation. Would using diffusors help? At least I may need one behind my listening position, as I sit quite close to the back wall.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by CLEE

jazzman, thanks for the good advice. I don't have symmetry in the listening area, which is about 16' x 17.5', but with one side opening to another area near the rear. I use minor difference in toe-in to provide some (but not adequate) compensation. Would using diffusors help? At least I may need one behind my listening position, as I sit quite close to the back wall.

the most important is symmetry between left and right wall. You want the first reflection on the side walls to arrive to you at the same time otherwise imaging will suffer. Imagine for example you are sitting in an equilateral position vs. the speakers, but left wall is 8 feet from you and right wall is 15 feet: what I would do is putting a diffuser like the transparent SMT wings at the first point of reflection on the long side of the room, to have first reflection traveling the same distance for both left and right speakers.
Now if your problem is that you have an opening in the rear (by rear, do you mean behind speakers or behind listeners), it is less of an issue. It will mainly influence bass response, as the opening will work as a giant helmholtz resonator. If beneficial or not, impossible to know without measuring (playing with different position of the speakers)
And yes, if you are sitting less than 1.5 meters from back wall, I STRONGLY encourage you to use a near-field diffuser from SMT to manage the rear reflection. This is the first thing I would do. Be careful with diffusers: from my knowledge only SMT works in the near field, all other diffusers require 2.5-3 meters to be effective. I sit 60cm from back wall... which is fully treated

[CLEE]

Originally Posted by jazzman

the most important is symmetry between left and right wall. You want the first reflection on the side walls to arrive to you at the same time otherwise imaging will suffer. Imagine for example you are sitting in an equilateral position vs. the speakers, but left wall is 8 feet from you and right wall is 15 feet: what I would do is putting a diffuser like the transparent SMT wings at the first point of reflection on the long side of the room, to have first reflection traveling the same distance for both left and right speakers.
Now if your problem is that you have an opening in the rear (by rear, do you mean behind speakers or behind listeners), it is less of an issue. It will mainly influence bass response, as the opening will work as a giant helmholtz resonator. If beneficial or not, impossible to know without measuring (playing with different position of the speakers)
And yes, if you are sitting less than 1.5 meters from back wall, I STRONGLY encourage you to use a near-field diffuser from SMT to manage the rear reflection. This is the first thing I would do. Be careful with diffusers: from my knowledge only SMT works in the near field, all other diffusers require 2.5-3 meters to be effective. I sit 60cm from back wall... which is fully treated

Fortunately, my set-up is approximately symmetrical at 1st reflection point. However, at where I sit, I am ~8 ft from my right-hand wall and 15 ft from a left wall. My back wall is only ~2.2 ft from my seat. What are these near-field diffusors? I don't seem to find them at SMT web site. Do they sell direct?

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by CLEE

Fortunately, my set-up is approximately symmetrical at 1st reflection point. However, at where I sit, I am ~8 ft from my right-hand wall and 15 ft from a left wall. My back wall is only ~2.2 ft from my seat. What are these near-field diffusors? I don't seem to find them at SMT web site. Do they sell direct?

Where you sit is less a problem, most important is first reflection point. What you need to take care of in your case is the reflection from the back wall.
Any wing would work. Can be wood based, acrylic, etc.
The one I was referring to is "SMT transparent wing mobile". Google it and look for images. The 4th one is a pic from one of my thread on WBF, you will see the different type of wings (all would work).
They have distributors in some markets (US, Singapore, etc), otherwise you can buy direct. Best is you contact directly Matts Odemalm:
SMT AB
Finnhällen
726 92 Skultuna
Sweden
+46(0)70 513 22 21
Matts@diffusor.com
SMT AB