AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Schiit

Schiit Designed For The Real World

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2017, 06:54 PM
robfine's Avatar
robfine robfine is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Posts: 1,067
Default Schiit on the Nightstand

I think my bedroom headphone system has been outgrown by the headphones it feeds. I have a Squeezebox Touch (with a firmware mod to allow USB out to 192k) with Channel Islands Power Supply, to a Centrance DAC Mini DAC/Headphone amp. It sounds very nice but with my last two headphone additions (Audeze LCD-XC and Focal Elear) it is time to upgrade to take fuller advantage of the Audezes and Focals.

There’s been a lot Schiit-talk going around on AA as of late which has caught my attention and left me with some questions. For the amp, those of you who have the Valhalla 2, why the Valhalla instead of the Lyr 2? For those of you I’m referring to I’m sure it was not to save 100 bucks. Did you compare the two or just want more pure ‘tube’. I like tubes (my main system runs around a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium IA) but I’m in Miami so heat is an issue— especially for equipment sitting on a night table and for the same reason, the delicate nature of 4 exposed tubes (which disqualifies any of the Woo amps except maybe the FireFlies but I’m thinking there’s more bang for the buck with this Schiit). The Lyr (at least looks) to be a little less vulnerable on the night stand.

As for the DAC side of things, I’m very intrigued by the Gunghir Multibit but the size may be a problem. If it is too big to make work, are there any thoughts about the Bifrost Multibit? Anyone have experience with it or compare it to the Gumby? Again, these questions are in the context of feeding LCD-XCs and Elears (plus who knows what comes next).

I appreciate any thoughts, comments and suggestions.
__________________
Office/Music Room
Dynaudio Heritage Special. Uptone Audio EtherRegen Ethernet Switch. Akasa NUC 10i7 with Roon Rock. Bryston BDP-3 Digital Music Player (with 4 Tb Internal SSD and Synology DS920+ NAS)-->Holo Audio May Kitsune Edition DAC-->Shunyata Sigma USB—>Gryphon Diablo 120 Integreted Amp w Transpatent XL PC. Oppo BDP-105D and BDP-203. Power: Shunyata Hydra Sigma S12 PD. Additional Cabling: WW Silver Electra PC, WW Electra PC, Shunyata Venom 3 PC. Digital: WW Starlight Ethernet, WW Gold Starlight AES-EBU, WW Platinum Starlight USB. IC and Speaker: WW Eclipse 8.

Bedroom System
Ipad with MusicStreamer App-->Schiit Jotunheim DAC/Amp—>Audeze LCD-XC, Focal for Bentley Radiance HO, Massdrop E-MU Teak HP. AK SE 200 DAP.

Mobile Survival Kit
Astell & Kern SP1000M. Noble Kaiser Encore IEM with Double Helix Balanced cable, Westone W80 IEM w ALOaudio Ref 8 cable, Westone W60 IEM, Shure se535 Ltd with Westone Bluetooth Wireless cable-amp. Mark Levinson No. 5909 Wireless HP.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2017, 08:15 PM
Puma Cat's Avatar
Puma Cat Puma Cat is online now
Cool, calm scientist

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 10,915
Default

Valhalla 2 was really designed as an output transformer-less triode amp primarily for the Sennheisers HD-series, due to their high impedance of 300 ohms. Its an amplifier design that has been demonstrated to work particularly well for that series of headphones and even pretty well for HD800s, and so there are so many Senn HD 600/650s (soon to be 660s) in circulation, that Schiit made an amp that pretty much targeted this line, though it works very well with a number other headphones, as Serge can atttest. Lyr is a high-power amplifier more intended for low-efficiency orthos and planars, e.g. HiFi Man, Abyss, some Audezes, etc.

If this is going on your nightstand, I'd recommend possibly starting with the Vali 2 headphone amp and Modi Multibit DAC. Vali 2 puts 1 W into 32 ohms and should drive your two headphones just fine. Modi Multibit has a DAC chip and closed-form filter very similar to Bifrost MB. It sounds quite comparable to Bifrost, but doesn't have Bifrost's power supply or upgradeability. When it comes to Schiit gear, the best advice I can give is not to be put off by the low price. Vali 2 has gotten terrific reviews from the seriously hardcore headphone guys at HF and SBAF, and Modi Multibit punches WAY above it's price point. Just ask Serge about how my little $149 Loki DSD DAC sounds.

This would be would be a great starting point, IMO.

If you like this setup, and want to take Modi Multibit to an even higher level, you can add the Schiit Eitr, Schiit's $179 USB/SPDIF convertor, and go USB from your Squeezebox Touch to Eitr and then RCA digital coax to the SPDIF port on Modi Mutlibit. Eitr is an absolutely killer product that, in my estimation, would compete comparably with the Berkeley Alpha USB that sells for $1800. It will give you Schiit's Gen 5 USB interface implementation, which sounds notably better than the USB that is on Modi Multibit. You can stack Modi Multibit on Eitr, and Vali on top of Modi MB, for a very compact "Schiit-stack".
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.

Last edited by Puma Cat; 11-11-2017 at 08:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2017, 08:30 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

As to why Valhalla 2 and not Lyr 2 for me personally is because I wanted to start the Schiit journey from the bottom up and get a taste for their solid state and tube offerings. Savor the Schiit flavor?

I actually started with the Gungnir multibit DAC (Gumby) because I knew I'd be happy with it for a long time and it turns out it exceeded my expectations. Highly recommend the Gumby. Perhaps PumaCat can elaborate more on the Bifrost? I've read some reviews on the Yggdrasil vs Gungnir and it sounded like the Gungnir is the warmer sounding DAC which I like and PumaCat Stephen confirmed it for me.

Getting back to Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2 that I have at the moment. Both are fantastic for the money. I also have the Focal Elear that I decided to keep along with the Utopia. Listening to the Elear as I type this through Gumby and Valhalla 2. Fabulous.

I also wanted to get an understanding of what Schiit house sound is and if it holds through their range of products. The Asgard 2 is Class A solid state, the Valhalla 2 is a Triode OTL. Love them both. The Asgard 2 sounds like a very classy solid state with just the right touch of warmth, forgiveness and musicality without sounding overly mushy/soft in dynamics. No trace of hardness of notes or solid state grain. Pure joy to listen to. I also plan to add a Lyr 2 at some point and perhaps even move up to the Mjolnir. At these prices, this Schiit is addicting and affordable.

Now for the not so great news as far as your setup goes. These little Schiits run freaking HOT! They are putting out some seriously good music and throwing off some heat in the process. They work hard for your money.

Would I recommend that you park one of these on your nightstand if you live in Miami and heat is an issue? I can't do that. You'll be loving the music but you will hate me for not telling you that they run HOT.

There are alternative out there that don't run quite as hot including tubes. If you need suggestions, I can provide a few. Hope this helps.

Last edited by PHC1; 11-11-2017 at 08:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2017, 09:30 PM
Puma Cat's Avatar
Puma Cat Puma Cat is online now
Cool, calm scientist

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 10,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
As to why Valhalla 2 and not Lyr 2 for me personally is because I wanted to start the Schiit journey from the bottom up and get a taste for their solid state and tube offerings. Savor the Schiit flavor?

I actually started with the Gungnir multibit DAC (Gumby) because I knew I'd be happy with it for a long time and it turns out it exceeded my expectations. Highly recommend the Gumby. Perhaps PumaCat can elaborate more on the Bifrost? I've read some reviews on the Yggdrasil vs Gungnir and it sounded like the Gungnir is the warmer sounding DAC which I like and PumaCat Stephen confirmed it for me.

Getting back to Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2 that I have at the moment. Both are fantastic for the money. I also have the Focal Elear that I decided to keep along with the Utopia. Listening to the Elear as I type this through Gumby and Valhalla 2. Fabulous.

I also wanted to get an understanding of what Schiit house sound is and if it holds through their range of products. The Asgard 2 is Class A solid state, the Valhalla 2 is a Triode OTL. Love them both. The Asgard 2 sounds like a very classy solid state with just the right touch of warmth, forgiveness and musicality without sounding overly mushy/soft in dynamics. No trace of hardness of notes or solid state grain. Pure joy to listen to. I also plan to add a Lyr 2 at some point and perhaps even move up to the Mjolnir. At these prices, this Schiit is addicting and affordable.

Now for the not so great news as far as your setup goes. These little Schiits run freaking HOT! They are putting out some seriously good music and throwing off some heat in the process. They work hard for your money.

Would I recommend that you park one of these on your nightstand if you live in Miami and heat is an issue? I can't do that. You'll be loving the music but you will hate me for not telling you that they run HOT.

There are alternative out there that don't run quite as hot including tubes. If you need suggestions, I can provide a few. Hope this helps.
Yes, the amps Serge has discussed run hot. That's why I recommended Vali;it is small and only has one tube. Should be quite a bit cooler. If you don't want to deal with tubes at all, one could start with the new solid-state Magni 3. It's brand new design and I've read great things about it. For a $99 investment, its minimal risk. There should be no issues with heat with Modi Multibit or Bifrost Multibit.
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2017, 09:33 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
Yes, the amps Serge has discussed run hot. That's why I recommended Vali;it is small and only has one tube. Should be quite a bit cooler. If you don't want to deal with tubes at all, one could start with the new solid-state Magni 3. It's brand new design and I've read great things about it. For a $99 investment, its minimal risk. There should be no issues with heat with Modi Multibit or Bifrost Multibit.
Definitely worth a try.


"Forget $99—Compare at Many Times the Price
Most headphone amps in Magni’s price range use op-amps (integrated chips) for gain and power output. Not Magni. Magni’s gain stage is an-all-new, fully discrete, high-speed, dc-coupled, current-feedback design, completely different than the first and second-generation Magnis. This current-feedback gain stage is typically only found in very exotic designs that sell for more than 10x the Magni’s price."
*Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel
*
THD: Less than 0.001%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, less than 0.02% at 5V RMS into 32 ohms
IMD: Less than 0.001%, CCIF
*
SNR: Greater than 108db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
*
Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz
*
Output Impedance: Less than 0.3 ohms at either gain
Input Impedance: 25k ohms
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-19-2017, 08:24 PM
robfine's Avatar
robfine robfine is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Posts: 1,067
Default

Some of my headphones have balanced cabling so some of the otherwise good suggestions don’t let me take full advantage of the ‘phones. If I stay in the world of Schiit, that leaves me with the Gumby as DAC and the Mjolnir 2 with LISST (solid state) ‘tubes’. The Mjolnir that way would still be warm but hopefully not too warm for the night table. That, of course, should be a killer setup.

In looking at the Schiit website, I also just noticed the Jotunheim which is a fully balanced solid state headphone amp that as an option can have a balanced DAC card (unfortunately, no multibit option)(of course, with the Gumby I wouldn’t really need the DAC unless I got it to have a spare DAC for an additional $100). Since the website doesn’t mention Class A, I’m thinking heat from it is not a big deal. Of course, if it doesn’t sound good then solving the heat problem doesn’t really help me.

Any experience out there with the Jotunheim (with or without the DAC card or the Mjolnir 2 (with LISST)?

[BTW: The Bryston BHA-1 is not in the hunt for the amp part of the combo because it is too big. The Gumby footprint is the absolute biggest I can make fit where I need this to go.]

Thanks for your thoughts
__________________
Office/Music Room
Dynaudio Heritage Special. Uptone Audio EtherRegen Ethernet Switch. Akasa NUC 10i7 with Roon Rock. Bryston BDP-3 Digital Music Player (with 4 Tb Internal SSD and Synology DS920+ NAS)-->Holo Audio May Kitsune Edition DAC-->Shunyata Sigma USB—>Gryphon Diablo 120 Integreted Amp w Transpatent XL PC. Oppo BDP-105D and BDP-203. Power: Shunyata Hydra Sigma S12 PD. Additional Cabling: WW Silver Electra PC, WW Electra PC, Shunyata Venom 3 PC. Digital: WW Starlight Ethernet, WW Gold Starlight AES-EBU, WW Platinum Starlight USB. IC and Speaker: WW Eclipse 8.

Bedroom System
Ipad with MusicStreamer App-->Schiit Jotunheim DAC/Amp—>Audeze LCD-XC, Focal for Bentley Radiance HO, Massdrop E-MU Teak HP. AK SE 200 DAP.

Mobile Survival Kit
Astell & Kern SP1000M. Noble Kaiser Encore IEM with Double Helix Balanced cable, Westone W80 IEM w ALOaudio Ref 8 cable, Westone W60 IEM, Shure se535 Ltd with Westone Bluetooth Wireless cable-amp. Mark Levinson No. 5909 Wireless HP.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:06 AM
robfine's Avatar
robfine robfine is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Posts: 1,067
Default

So I decided to try some different Schiit. I just ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. My plan was to go with the Jotunheim with a Gimby. But then I saw (1) that the DAC card got good reviews (not as good as the Gimby but really pretty good) and it was exorbitantly priced at a whopping [the cost of my AA Platinum membership]. So I figured, for the 100 bucks I would have a spare fully balanced DAC. So for now I’m getting the Jotunheim with DAC. After I live with it for a couple of months I will get me a Gimby and if all this Schiit schiit sounds as good as you all have been telling me I’ll be happier than a pig in, well, you know... [emoji200]in[emoji90]
__________________
Office/Music Room
Dynaudio Heritage Special. Uptone Audio EtherRegen Ethernet Switch. Akasa NUC 10i7 with Roon Rock. Bryston BDP-3 Digital Music Player (with 4 Tb Internal SSD and Synology DS920+ NAS)-->Holo Audio May Kitsune Edition DAC-->Shunyata Sigma USB—>Gryphon Diablo 120 Integreted Amp w Transpatent XL PC. Oppo BDP-105D and BDP-203. Power: Shunyata Hydra Sigma S12 PD. Additional Cabling: WW Silver Electra PC, WW Electra PC, Shunyata Venom 3 PC. Digital: WW Starlight Ethernet, WW Gold Starlight AES-EBU, WW Platinum Starlight USB. IC and Speaker: WW Eclipse 8.

Bedroom System
Ipad with MusicStreamer App-->Schiit Jotunheim DAC/Amp—>Audeze LCD-XC, Focal for Bentley Radiance HO, Massdrop E-MU Teak HP. AK SE 200 DAP.

Mobile Survival Kit
Astell & Kern SP1000M. Noble Kaiser Encore IEM with Double Helix Balanced cable, Westone W80 IEM w ALOaudio Ref 8 cable, Westone W60 IEM, Shure se535 Ltd with Westone Bluetooth Wireless cable-amp. Mark Levinson No. 5909 Wireless HP.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:39 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Did your Jotunheim come in yet Rob?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:48 AM
robfine's Avatar
robfine robfine is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Posts: 1,067
Default

It did, but I don’t get to open it until the 25th. A couple other goodies are on their way as well but they ain’t Schiit so I guess I’ll have go talk about them in a different thread.

Borrowing from another thread, I bought a slightly used Wireworld Neon-Silver Eclipse for my Audeze LCD-XC about 6 months ago (single ended). They are really excellent. I may have to see if WW will reterminate them as balanced to use with the Jotunheim.
__________________
Office/Music Room
Dynaudio Heritage Special. Uptone Audio EtherRegen Ethernet Switch. Akasa NUC 10i7 with Roon Rock. Bryston BDP-3 Digital Music Player (with 4 Tb Internal SSD and Synology DS920+ NAS)-->Holo Audio May Kitsune Edition DAC-->Shunyata Sigma USB—>Gryphon Diablo 120 Integreted Amp w Transpatent XL PC. Oppo BDP-105D and BDP-203. Power: Shunyata Hydra Sigma S12 PD. Additional Cabling: WW Silver Electra PC, WW Electra PC, Shunyata Venom 3 PC. Digital: WW Starlight Ethernet, WW Gold Starlight AES-EBU, WW Platinum Starlight USB. IC and Speaker: WW Eclipse 8.

Bedroom System
Ipad with MusicStreamer App-->Schiit Jotunheim DAC/Amp—>Audeze LCD-XC, Focal for Bentley Radiance HO, Massdrop E-MU Teak HP. AK SE 200 DAP.

Mobile Survival Kit
Astell & Kern SP1000M. Noble Kaiser Encore IEM with Double Helix Balanced cable, Westone W80 IEM w ALOaudio Ref 8 cable, Westone W60 IEM, Shure se535 Ltd with Westone Bluetooth Wireless cable-amp. Mark Levinson No. 5909 Wireless HP.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:54 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 23,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robfine View Post
It did, but I don’t get to open it until the 25th. A couple other goodies are on their way as well but they ain’t Schiit so I guess I’ll have go talk about them in a different thread.

Borrowing from another thread, I bought a slightly used Wireworld Neon-Silver Eclipse for my Audeze LCD-XC about 6 months ago (single ended). They are really excellent. I may have to see if WW will reterminate them as balanced to use with the Jotunheim.
Good deal, looking forward to your impressions. As far as getting a balanced cable for your Audeze... Get on it brother. Like they say, "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Check out the specs of single ended vs balanced in Jutenheim.

Balanced Headphone Output:
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 7500mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 5000mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 3000mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 900mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 500mW RMS per channel
Single-Ended Headphone Output:
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2500mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 800mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 350mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 175mW RMS per channel

Last edited by PHC1; 12-18-2017 at 12:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video