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  #11  
Old 08-31-2013, 06:03 AM
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bvdiman bvdiman is offline
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
I love my Sasha's. It's cool. There is always better... But not much.
My brother was shopping for new speakers..
The last time, I gave him my Magico V3 to use he quickly sold it for a pair of Sashas instead.
Fairly recently, after having auditioned amongst others Q5, Q3, S5, he opted to get the new Alexia.

Speakers are taste/preference thing and a pretty subjective one..

So bother not what people say, just keep enjoying what you got/ear tells you.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2013, 08:25 AM
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CLEE CLEE is offline
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Early in my hi-fi venture, I lived with a pair of Infinity RS1b. Infinity was Arnie's company before Genesis. This speaker had given me lots of enjoyment but some headache also. The highs and midrange were excellent though I can't compare meaningfully with my current S5 as they are so far apart in time. Eventually I found I was not able to integrate the bass column. I also doubted that the bass servo was not speedy enough and often did more harm than good.

Borrowed RS1b image


I also had limited experience with the Infinity IRS Beta and the Genesis II. They were better but (to me) still had similar problems, though to a lesser degree as the RS 1b.

Like Adam, I also came to the S5 from Wilson’s Sasha.
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2013, 08:33 AM
Bodhisattva
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Originally Posted by jazzman View Post
I cannot comment on the IRS Beta, but I still have a pair of Infinity IRS Epsilon in my garage (my first serious speakers, before many others, I still have an emotional attachment, never wanted to sell them...): same EMIT, EMIM and L-EMIM drivers but a servo controlled single bass driver.
I took the IRS out a few years back, connected them to my Gryphon Antileon and compared to the evolution acoustic MM3 I had at the time. I am sorry, but modern speakers are in fact much better: better defined bass, more transparency, etc. The difference was shocking.
Since then I replaced the MM3 with a pair of Magico Q1 (temporary speaker, waiting for my Ultimate): going from a 600lbs monster to small monitors. As surprising as it can be for most of us thinking "bigger= better", I enjoy more the sound of the Q1, on the music I listen (70% Jazz + voices, J.S. Bach and church music), and I end up therefore listening much more to music. In short: More transparency, more faithful tones, more precise imaging, less bass extension.
And yes, I would take a pair of S5 over a Sasha anytime. Would even take it against a pair of Alexia. They are that good, even if I personally prefer the Q3 over the S5.
Hi Jazz, you provided a fairly compelling picture of how speaker development has evolved from the classic IRS-Epsilon and earlier predecessors such as the IRS-Beta, from which many of it's drivers evolved. I'm not surprised your Evolution Acoustics MM3's were dramatically better taking into account their price, but of course as you found out with the Q1's, the size or cost of a speaker tells little about how musically satisfying it is.

For me, I liked the overall balance, smoothness and excitement the S5's offer. To my ears they were every bit as coherent as the Q3's and sounded a bit warmer. They are like a higher end version of an IRS-Gamma that just happens to kick the Renaissance 90's, IRS-Sigma & IRS-Epsilon's butt!!

ps: I plan to place my S5's on Stillpoints Ultra 5's with the Ultra bases which, knowing how good the Ultra 5's are, should lift the S5's to the same level as the Q3 (since they are close already)..
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2013, 08:44 AM
Bodhisattva
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Originally Posted by CLEE View Post
Early in my hi-fi venture, I lived with a pair of Infinity RS1b. Infinity was Arnie's company before Genesis. This speaker had given me lots of enjoyment but some headache also. The highs and midrange were excellent though I can't compare meaningfully with my current S5 as they are so far apart in time. Eventually I found I was not able to integrate the bass column. I also doubted that the bass servo was not speedy enough and often did more harm than good.

I also had limited experience with the Infinity IRS Beta and the Genesis II. They were better but (to me) still had similar problems, though to a lesser degree as the RS 1b.

Like Adam, I also came to the S5 from Wilson’s Sasha.
The RS1B's look lovely in classic Chatsworth Oak. I owned a pair of Reference 60's in oak and seeing them in the room always brought a smile to my face Yeah the weak point with many of the more complex Infinity Reference Standard speakers was coherency, though I wouldn't say that about the IRS-V's I also owned a pair of Renaissance 90's, which in comparison to the S5's did sound a bit disjointed between the mid bass and highs.

Cheers,

Last edited by Bodhisattva; 08-31-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:14 AM
jazzman jazzman is offline
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
Hi Jazz, you provided a fairly compelling picture of how speaker development has evolved from the classic IRS-Epsilon and earlier predecessors such as the IRS-Beta, from which many of it's drivers evolved. I'm not surprised your Evolution Acoustics MM3's were dramatically better taking into account their price, but of course as you found out with the Q1's, the size or cost of a speaker tells little about how musically satisfying it is.

For me, I liked the overall balance, smoothness and excitement the S5's offer. To my ears they were every bit as coherent as the Q3's and sounded a bit warmer. They are like a higher end version of an IRS-Gamma that just happens to kick the Renaissance 90's, IRS-Sigma & IRS-Epsilon's butt!!

ps: I plan to place my S5's on Stillpoints Ultra 5's with the Ultra bases which, knowing how good the Ultra 5's are, should lift the S5's to the same level as the Q3 (since they are close already)..
Even if I prefer it, I wouldn't say that the Q3 is a better speaker than the S5.
S5 is more accessible, more tolerant to the source, in the sense that it is a bit warmer, with a very slight bass hump. It is also very transparent, but not as much as the Q3. For me, it is targeting the typical Wilson buyer, as it does everything a sasha would do.... better, and without being as "revolutionary" as the Q3.

Q3 require a learning curve, like all Q series. You need to reeducate your ears, because their linearity, transparency and impulse response is better than anything else on the market. Response is perfectly flat and extremely transparent (because of a more inert cabinet construction and more expensive drivers and XO). On very good recording and with very good upstream components, no speaker it its price range beats it. On poor recording or with average upstream components... you hear it, because they are "brutally honest" (vs. "honest" for the S5 and "pleasing" for the Sonus Faber).
If I would listen to a lot of pop/rock, I would buy the S5. For Jazz (which is my priority), I prefer the Q3. You really cannot go wrong with any of them.

I haven't heard the S5 and Q3 in the same room with the same equipment. But I have at home S1 and Q1 in same room, fully treated, so I had the opportunity to compare for several hours, with different upstream components. S1 is an amazing value for money. But cost put aside, I would take the Q1 any day.
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2013, 11:44 AM
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Ricjor1 Ricjor1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvdiman View Post
My brother was shopping for new speakers..
The last time, I gave him my Magico V3 to use he quickly sold it for a pair of Sashas instead.
Fairly recently, after having auditioned amongst others Q5, Q3, S5, he opted to get the new Alexia.

Speakers are taste/preference thing and a pretty subjective one..

So bother not what people say, just keep enjoying what you got/ear tells you.
2fastdriving,

For your own sanity please, please listen to what bvdiman said, "speakers are taste/preference thing and pretty subjective." Moreover Wilson has been on top for a long time and they appear to be the speaker to trash. I was told that Rockport Aviors sound so much better than Sasha's and I was doing everything to hear them...I almost sold them prior to hearing Aviors! Finally my wife and I had a chance to hear them in the same room and system next to Sashas and both of us preferred Sashas. Does that mean everyone will, no... It's subjective! The Aviors are great speakers, just not my preference. In addition, to be blunt, you have individuals like Elberoth(Adam) that recently said Aviors sound better than Sashas, but he has never heard the Aviors...he made the assumption based on hearing other Rockports. I talked to a dealer that sales Magico and based on my system, he said I would get more out of keeping my Sasha's and upgrading my electronics and room treatment. Finally, yes there are many speakers out there, some prefer Wilson, some prefer Magico, still some prefer something entirely different. Like a good friend/dealer of mind always reminds me, there are different/better speakers than Sashas, but I still have a better system than 90+ % of people. Try to relax and enjoy what you have...SASHAS ARE GREAT SPEAKERS!
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2013, 11:52 AM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post

2fastdriving,

For your own sanity please, please listen to what bvdiman said, "speakers are taste/preference thing and pretty subjective." Moreover Wilson has been on top for a long time and they appear to be the speaker to trash. I was told that Rockport Aviors sound so much better than Sasha's and I was doing everything to hear them...I almost sold them prior to hearing Aviors! Finally my wife and I had a chance to hear them in the same room and system next to Sashas and both of us preferred Sashas. Does that mean everyone will, no... It's subjective! The Aviors are great speakers, just not my preference. In addition, to be blunt, you have individuals like Elberoth(Adam) that recently said Aviors sound better than Sashas, but he has never heard the Aviors...he made the assumption based on hearing other Rockports. I talked to a dealer that sales Magico and based on my system, he said I would get more out of keeping my Sasha's and upgrading my electronics and room treatment. Finally, yes there are many speakers out there, some prefer Wilson, some prefer Magico, still some prefer something entirely different. Like a good friend/dealer of mind always reminds me, there are different/better speakers than Sashas, but I still have a better system than 90+ % of people. Try to relax and enjoy what you have...SASHAS ARE GREAT SPEAKERS!
Great post! Don't worry... I am just sane enough to agree with everything you just said. I love Sasha's, they constantly surprise me with how good they really are.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:17 PM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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All that being said...don't want to hijack the thread and talk about Sasha's too much. I really would LOVE to hear the S5 anyway. Or the Infinity. That's what this hobby is all about - Music first...but then listening to many great products and systems and deciding what you love. Even if I did love it, I'd have to love it a LOT to change what I have. It would have to be quite a revelation. I think when you get to the level of a Sasha or an S5, a lot can be gained by upgrading electronics, cables, and room treatments as you mentioned earlier, Rick.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2013, 07:33 PM
Bodhisattva
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
All that being said...don't want to hijack the thread and talk about Sasha's too much. I really would LOVE to hear the S5 anyway. Or the Infinity. That's what this hobby is all about - Music first...but then listening to many great products and systems and deciding what you love. Even if I did love it, I'd have to love it a LOT to change what I have. It would have to be quite a revelation. I think when you get to the level of a Sasha or an S5, a lot can be gained by upgrading electronics, cables, and room treatments as you mentioned earlier, Rick.
Marc, you basically reflected my own thoughts abut Rick's earlier comment which hit the nail on the head. The Sasha's are great speakers, as are the S5's and Q3's. Even if the Q3's are a bit more linear and transparent, I took the view I was better off upgrading my isolation with Stillpoints & FE Cerabase feet and bringing forward some electronics upgrades. In other words, build around your current speakers and concentrate on optimizing your system to get the best sound. I've seen more than one system which had very expensive speakers, but cut corners in the cables, amps, isolation or conditioning.

Cheers,
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  #20  
Old 08-31-2013, 07:40 PM
Bodhisattva
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Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
I talked to a dealer that sales Magico and based on my system, he said I would get more out of keeping my Sasha's and upgrading my electronics and room treatment.
Rick, I generally agree with that comment and am taking the same approach with my system. Though fyi i'd take that Dealer's comment with a slight grain of salt. Magico only give a very small discount to Distributors, so by the time the Dealer has worked out a deal on a pair there is only a small margin in it

Last edited by Bodhisattva; 08-31-2013 at 07:44 PM.
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