AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Audio Research

Audio Research State of the Art Audio Reproduction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-29-2014, 04:18 PM
jakegt3 jakegt3 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 115
Default

Issues of dealer markup aside, these numbers indicate what a tiny niche market this is. I didn't appreciate just how tiny. The financial markets consider companies with up to $1 billion dollars market capitalization, or even somewhat more, to be "small cap". Here we are talking nano cap!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-29-2014, 08:03 PM
Bobvin Bobvin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, OR area
Posts: 124
Default

My wife is a commercial banker... Where she is less than 20 million annual revenues doesn't even get you to the wholesale (commercial) side of the business. Under ~20million companies deal with the "retail" side. $20 million - $500 million is considered "middle market", beyond that a company deals with the "corporate" bank.

Of course, smaller or regional banks treat things differently. But by most definitions, audio companies would be considered "small" businesses.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-29-2014, 08:08 PM
Still-One Still-One is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 32,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninAudio View Post
The dealer cost in the USA for ARC gear is 35-40%. Then the dealer has to pay shipping. So that leaves a working margin on about 30%
Just a reminder. We avoid posting mark-ups and discounts on this site as a courtesy to manufacturers and dealers.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-29-2014, 08:11 PM
psi310398 psi310398 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 80
Default

The audio business reminds me of a joke in my wife's business (book publishing)

How do you make a $1m fortune publishing books?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Inherit $10 million.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-29-2014, 08:15 PM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is online now
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 78,485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Still-One View Post
Just a reminder. We avoid posting mark-ups and discounts on this site as a courtesy to manufacturers and dealers.
Thank you Jim
__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-29-2014, 08:59 PM
repman's Avatar
repman repman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 400
Default

You also must account for revenue for repairs , new tube sets , accessories, ect that is included in that 8-10 million. So to back into a new unit number with this limited info is basically an unrealistic guess.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-30-2014, 04:39 AM
antipop's Avatar
antipop antipop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,029
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakegt3 View Post
Issues of dealer markup aside, these numbers indicate what a tiny niche market this is. I didn't appreciate just how tiny. The financial markets consider companies with up to $1 billion dollars market capitalization, or even somewhat more, to be "small cap". Here we are talking nano cap!
For private companies, small cap are companies with less than 150m$ of revenues or values. $1bn+ is large cap and in between you have the mid-market.

The values are higher/different for listed companies.

So yes, we are dealing with small companies and mostly on the lower end of the spectrum. It would be interesting to see the margin and profitability of those companies. My guess is that the cost structure would be very low beyond COGS as they have a limited number of employees. They may have a bit of D&A to account for but it's inventory that would be really tricky to manage here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Boulder or Magico have revenues below 5m$
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-30-2014, 06:31 AM
ariess ariess is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by repman View Post
You also must account for revenue for repairs , new tube sets , accessories, ect that is included in that 8-10 million. So to back into a new unit number with this limited info is basically an unrealistic guess.
It depends how precise you want to be. The items you list are pretty small in $$$ surely well under 20%. It seems clear to me that yearly sales of Reference units cannot realistically be higher than a hundred or so and could be half that.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-30-2014, 11:04 AM
MPS's Avatar
MPS MPS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Global
Posts: 163
Default

You might get approximate idea by checking serial numbers between initial and final production run of each model.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-06-2014, 11:24 AM
longbowbbs longbowbbs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NW Wisconsin
Posts: 333
Default

While it would be interesting to know how many units top end firms sell, my main thanks is that they apparently generate enough profit to keep making their great audio gear.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video