AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Shindo Laboratory

Shindo Laboratory Sound Create Producer

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 10-29-2011, 09:26 AM
JohnThomas JohnThomas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volks View Post
I really need to hear Shindo products for myself......overheard a convo in an audio shop the other day and the jist of it was that altough Shindo is built decent and looks good......its "Sound"is old&dated and extreamly overrated.......it reminded me what some people say about Mcintosh LOL .....but you know what they say about opinions.......everyone has one............but i so want to hear this brand for myself...
Hi Michael,

I don't know about old and outdated but definitely overrated. I've listen to Shindo for over 4 hours and I thought it was very good. I am going back for second listen for sure. It's definitely a cult thing like Mac which I previously owned. I will probably own some of their equipment someday but I wouldn't sell off all my current equipment for it. If you haven't heard Shindo you should it good stuff but it's not the holy grail either is my Burmester stuff.I always laugh when someone says their stuffs the best and everything else is chicken little. Ok I better duck for cover now.
__________________
Gryphon Essence stereo amp and preamp/dac Hurricane power cords
Fyne Audio F1-10, Lumin T2, Moon 260 Transport
Shunyata Research Everest, Sigma V2 XC,
Shunyata Research Sigma USB and Ethernet
Argento Audio speaker cables and interconnects
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:35 PM
sibelius sibelius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volks View Post
I really need to hear Shindo products for myself......overheard a convo in an audio shop the other day and the jist of it was that altough Shindo is built decent and looks good......its "Sound"is old&dated and extreamly overrated.......it reminded me what some people say about Mcintosh LOL .....but you know what they say about opinions.......everyone has one............but i so want to hear this brand for myself...
Listen for yourself and do not be swayed positively or negatively by external opinions. After being in this hobby for several decades the one thing I've learned is that there is no meaningful objective criteria in Audio gear. Trust your own ears.

To me, Shindo represents the best of the old and new. I find the sound tonally rich and full bodied yet also able to extrude all the musical details out of a performance. I do think the gear emphasizes the midrange and provides an immediate emotional connection to the music. There is other gear that will do the frequency extremes better but very little music lies in the extremes anyway. Shindo gear is also extremely well built. I've never owned quieter electronics. Also, the NOS tubes are conservatively run, providing years of enjoyment. Finally, Shindo dealers like Pitch Perfect are truly value add in that they offer amazing trade-up programs and will provide excellent support post purchase.

Everyone has different tastes. If you do not like the Shindo sound there are many other brands out there offering a different musical perspective. But I think you should listen to Shindo equipment if you have a chance.

I think where Shindo elicits some scorn from audiophiles is over pricing. It's not cheap. Some of this is due to the fact that Shindo's are hand built in small quantities using scarce NOS parts. Also, since Shindo has elected to sell his equipment through dealers there are distribution mark-ups that add to the cost. It also does not help that the product is from Japan and the Yen exchange rate has generally been unfavorable to most. However, value is a relative term and Shindo seems to be selling all he can build so consumers are voting appropriately with their wallets.
__________________
Speakers: Tonian classic 12 (PHY driver) and Hawthorn Audio Trios (Open Baffle). Analog Source: Nottingham Ana-log, Garrard 301. Tonearms: SME 312S, SME M2-12R, Nottingham Unipivot. Cartridge: Koetsu Onyx, Lyra Helikon Mono, Ortofon SPU Classic. Digital Source: Eastern Electric Dac +. Electronics: Shindo Vosne Romane Preamp, 45,2A3,300B,F2a,GM70 SET amps, Atma-sphere S30 OTL, Dynaco ST-70, Shindo Haut-Brion
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Alberto's Avatar
Alberto Alberto is offline
Chief Toneologist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 2,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibelius View Post
Listen for yourself and do not be swayed positively or negatively by external opinions. After being in this hobby for several decades the one thing I've learned is that there is no meaningful objective criteria in Audio gear. Trust your own ears.

To me, Shindo represents the best of the old and new. I find the sound tonally rich and full bodied yet also able to extrude all the musical details out of a performance. I do think the gear emphasizes the midrange and provides an immediate emotional connection to the music. There is other gear that will do the frequency extremes better but very little music lies in the extremes anyway. Shindo gear is also extremely well built. I've never owned quieter electronics. Also, the NOS tubes are conservatively run, providing years of enjoyment. Finally, Shindo dealers like Pitch Perfect are truly value add in that they offer amazing trade-up programs and will provide excellent support post purchase.

Everyone has different tastes. If you do not like the Shindo sound there are many other brands out there offering a different musical perspective. But I think you should listen to Shindo equipment if you have a chance.

I think where Shindo elicits some scorn from audiophiles is over pricing. It's not cheap. Some of this is due to the fact that Shindo's are hand built in small quantities using scarce NOS parts. Also, since Shindo has elected to sell his equipment through dealers there are distribution mark-ups that add to the cost. It also does not help that the product is from Japan and the Yen exchange rate has generally been unfavorable to most. However, value is a relative term and Shindo seems to be selling all he can build so consumers are voting appropriately with their wallets.
Very good points. We all have different ears and different tastes.

But I will say that, for me, Shindo hits all the right notes. I agree with "the best of old and new".

As far as being pricey goes, everyone on this forum will probably agree that the costliest thing is the cycle of buying something and then selling it to buy something else - usually with a significant loss.

With Shindo you have:

1) The high probability that you will keep it for a looooooooong time.

2) The great trade-up with full credit with some of the dealers (like Pitch Perfect Audio.)

3) If you do decide to move to another brand, most Shindo components sell quickly and have a high resale value.

Bottom-line: if you like the sound, Shindo might turn out to be one of the most fiscally responsible audio purchases (if there is such a thing) that you will make.

Alberto
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-29-2011, 02:09 PM
pitch perfect's Avatar
pitch perfect pitch perfect is offline
chief tube tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 315
Default

Scott and Alberto make some very good points, so I won't beat a dead horse.

I would just like to address the pricing comments..

Shindo hand makes preamps starting at well less than $4k. The Aurieges-L represents an incredible 'bargain', if I may use that word, in the world of hand made audio equipment. There is much written by myself - and elsewhere - about what makes a Shindo a Shindo. Paired with a Montille or other quality amp, and you have an incredible music making system. Sure, the other products in the line-up are pricier. It's a full line up, soup to nuts.

A Vosne-Romanee isn't cheap but, nor is a Burmester(for example) $25k integrated amp. You could actually purchase a VR and Montille amp for about the same price. Shindo's Apetite integrated is less than 1/3 of that price. And it's a Shindo.

-M
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-29-2011, 02:59 PM
countingbackwards countingbackwards is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 102
Default

Having just recently auditioned Shindo gear alongside a few other options, I can confirm that to my ears, there is nothing at all about the Shindo sound that says "old fashioned". Sure the looks and construction methods appear to be old-fashioned, but the sound is a different matter altogether.

I think of "old fashioned" sound as a sort of romanticized mid-range with rolled off frequency extremes, a sound that feels like a nice warm blanket has been thrown over the music. That couldn't be further from what I characterize as the "Shindo" sound following various auditions.

Describing actual sonic attributes can be hard, but I'll try. To me, in the few systems I've heard Shindo preamps (Giscours and Aurieges), they have a tremendous clarity & sparkle, with an uncanny ability to allow you to focus on any part of the music you're listening to, whether it be the emotion of a voice, the detail in a plucked bass string, the sizzle of cymbals, or the dynamics of percussion. It's the exact opposite of "lush", in that it doesn't cover up details by temporally blurring any part of the frequency spectrum. The extremely high level of detail retrieval that Shindo preamps display, is the polar opposite of "old fashioned" IMHO.

And...their virtues are not limited to "old fashioned" music either. IMHO, a good component is a good component is a good component. There's no such thing as "good for classical" or "good for rock" or "good for jazz". When I read those descriptors, I presume that there's some sort of coloration in the gear that makes it less good for other genres of music than the one that people say it's "good" for. So while the average Shindo customer might be listening to jazz or chamber music, I am not. I have selected a Shindo preamp, based on the fact that it sounds excellent the music that I like...which is mainly indie rock. There's also the fact that its phono stage alone is good enough to be worth the cost of the whole unit.

Last edited by countingbackwards; 10-29-2011 at 04:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:49 PM
pitch perfect's Avatar
pitch perfect pitch perfect is offline
chief tube tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by countingbackwards View Post
Having just recently auditioned Shindo gear alongside a few other options, I can confirm that to my ears, there is nothing at all about the Shindo sound that says "old fashioned". Sure the looks and construction methods appear to be old-fashioned, but the sound is a different matter altogether.

I think of "old fashioned" sound as a sort of romanticized mid-range with rolled off frequency extremes, a sound that feels like a nice warm blanket has been thrown over the music. That couldn't be further from what I characterize as the "Shindo" sound following various auditions.

Describing actual sonic attributes can be hard, but I'll try. To me, in the few systems I've heard Shindo preamps (Giscours and Aurieges), they have a tremendous clarity & sparkle, with an uncanny ability to allow you to focus on any part of the music you're listening to, whether it be the emotion of a voice, the detail in a plucked bass string, the sizzle of cymbals, or the dynamics of percussion. It's the exact opposite of "lush", in that it doesn't cover up details by temporally blurring any part of the frequency spectrum. The extremely high level of detail retrieval that Shindo preamps display, is the polar opposite of "old fashioned" IMHO.

And...their virtues are not limited to "old fashioned" music either. IMHO, a good component is a good component is a good component. There's no such thing as "good for classical" or "good for rock" or "good for jazz". When I read those descriptors, I presume that there's some sort of coloration in the gear that makes it less good for other genres of music than the one that people say it's "good" for. So while the average Shindo customer might be listening to jazz or chamber music, I am not. I have selected a Shindo preamp, based on the fact that it sounds excellent the music that I like...which is mainly indie rock. There's also the fact that its phono stage alone is goode enough to be worth the cost of the whole unit.


-M
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-29-2011, 04:45 PM
FranklinLG FranklinLG is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: On the round planet earth...
Posts: 422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by countingbackwards

And...their virtues are not limited to "old fashioned" music either. IMHO, a good component is a good component is a good component. There's no such thing as "good for classical" or "good for rock" or "good for jazz". When I read those descriptors, I presume that there's some sort of coloration in the gear that makes it less good for other genres of music than the one that people say it's "good" for. So while the average Shindo customer might be listening to jazz or chamber music, I am not. I have selected a Shindo preamp, based on the fact that it sounds excellent the music that I like...which is mainly indie rock. There's also the fact that its phono stage alone is good enough to be worth the cost of the whole unit.
+1 it should be universal.

Sent from my mobile device using A.Aficionado
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:21 PM
sibelius sibelius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchperfect View Post
Scott and Alberto make some very good points, so I won't beat a dead horse.

I would just like to address the pricing comments..

Shindo hand makes preamps starting at well less than $4k. The Aurieges-L represents an incredible 'bargain', if I may use that word, in the world of hand made audio equipment. There is much written by myself - and elsewhere - about what makes a Shindo a Shindo. Paired with a Montille or other quality amp, and you have an incredible music making system. Sure, the other products in the line-up are pricier. It's a full line up, soup to nuts.

A Vosne-Romanee isn't cheap but, nor is a Burmester(for example) $25k integrated amp. You could actually purchase a VR and Montille amp for about the same price. Shindo's Apetite integrated is less than 1/3 of that price. And it's a Shindo.

-M
Matt makes some great points as usual. You can still get a Shindo preamp-amp combo for under $10K which should absolutely thrill most people. Of course once you venture up the Shindo line the pricing increases accordingly. However, considering you can spend $20K on a phono cartridge these days, I would subjectively say that there is still value in what you get - especially considering the scarce NOS components.
__________________
Speakers: Tonian classic 12 (PHY driver) and Hawthorn Audio Trios (Open Baffle). Analog Source: Nottingham Ana-log, Garrard 301. Tonearms: SME 312S, SME M2-12R, Nottingham Unipivot. Cartridge: Koetsu Onyx, Lyra Helikon Mono, Ortofon SPU Classic. Digital Source: Eastern Electric Dac +. Electronics: Shindo Vosne Romane Preamp, 45,2A3,300B,F2a,GM70 SET amps, Atma-sphere S30 OTL, Dynaco ST-70, Shindo Haut-Brion
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-29-2011, 07:38 PM
G-Man G-Man is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 0
Default

Like a lot of the guys here, I've been playing this game a long time. All I ever wanted with regards to high end audio is to get fulfillment when listening to music at home. After having spent a minimum of 100 grand worth on audio equipment, and after letting all of it slip through my hands, I can finally sit down and listen and long for nothing more. In my humble opinion, that's worth every penny! If you find the same level of fufillment in another brand, more power to you my friend. Shindo has a track record of satisfying the extreme audiophile!
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-31-2011, 03:15 AM
audiot servant's Avatar
audiot servant audiot servant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Macquarie (just north of Sydney) Australia
Posts: 940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas View Post

I don't know about old and outdated but definitely overrated. ... Ok I better duck for cover now.
Hi John,

You've got nothing to worry about, just stand near your system... no audiophile worth his salt would fire off a shot anywhere near beautiful gear like that... Triode 300Bs and Burmester 911Mk111 for the Tannoy Canterbury SE... nice.

cheers
Graham

We all hear it differently and that's what makes it joyful... there's probably more paths to Nirvana than there are stars in the sky... it's just great to be able to share the journey.

Last edited by audiot servant; 10-31-2011 at 03:34 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video