An epic speaker battle is afoot: SF Guarneri vs. Tannoy Sandringham (take the poll)

[Alberto]

For my classic tastes, there are no better looking speaker brands than Sonus Faber and Tannoy. I just LOVE the way they look, and I am a VERY lucky guy to have two of the most beautiful production speakers in my house at the moment:

• The Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento - arguably the best looking 2-way monitor I've ever laid eyes on.
  
• The Tannoy Sandringham - one of the best looking floostanders I've ever seen.

As of a couple of days ago, it was a foregone conclusion that I'd be replacing the Guarneris in my transition from a high-power amp/low-efficiency speakers system to a low-power amp/high-efficiency speakers.

Then, while twiddling my thumbs waiting for FedEx to deliver the speakers, I checked Audiogon and ... yada, yada, yada ... I became the proud owner of a Shindo Montille 15W+15W amp.

I connected the Montille to the Sonus Faber while waiting for the Tannoys to arrive. I did not expect much from this temporary pairing ... but I was blown away. It's as if the Guarneris saw their 3+ year reign in my listening room coming to an end and pulled out all the stops.

The Shindo and the Guarneris sounded amazing - the best they've ever sounded. The best this system has ever sounded. The best ANY system I've owned has ever sounded.

How's that for hyperbole?

Just a couple of days after the Shindo and Guarneri became audio soulmates, the Tannoys show up at the doorstep. Every bit as stunning in "person" as they are in pictures.

As excited as I was about finally getting the Tannoys I must admit that it was with great reluctance that I unplugged the Guarneris.

I am now listening to the Tannoys. They are everything Serge said. They sound the way they look: D.E.L.I.C.I.O.U.S. They took to the Shindo and to my room like a duck to water but ... but ... but. I was still in awe of what they Guarneris pulled in their last few hours of "life" in my house.

This was supposed to be a no brainer. Out with the old, in with the new. I cut the watts available to the Guarneri by 485W - and replaced transistors with tubes. They poor SFs were not supposed to sound this good with such a puny supply of wattage. Heck, they were not supposed to sound good at all. But they sounded more than good - more than delicious - they sounded super-delicious.

To make a long story short, we are in for an epic fight to the "death." The incumbent Guarneris vs. the challenger Sandringham.

Part of me roots for the Guarneris, another part of me roots for the new toys that look and sound wonderful.

Who will win? Stay tuned. It will be very interesting but it may take a few days. I've even recruited the help of my two audiophile neighbors to make sure I am not deluding myself either way.

No consolation prize. One pair will stay in my house. Another pair will be on Audiogon.

Alberto

[PHC1]

Tannoy/Shindo combo will win. As you spend more time listening to variety of recordings, it will become evident that Shindo with Tannoy is like a 7 speed dual clutch tranny vs the old 3 speed manual gearbox. The impedance curve of Tannoy will allow the Shindo to shine and open up.

[Tonepub]

I agree with PHC. The big, multiple driver speakers just don't do that well with small tube amps. I'm sure the warmth is really inviting, but the Tannoy is just so much better with low power that on closer listen you will see how much more resolution you get along with the warmth.

I know what I'd pick.

[joe1515]

I belive the suggested retail price for the Tannoy Sandringham's is $2,500, correct? The Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento retail price is 15k. That is a pretty big price difference, if the Tannoy's can even hold their hold own that is very impressive. The Tannoy's seem to be a steal for the price.

Joe

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I agree with PHC. The big, multiple driver speakers just don't do that well with small tube amps. I'm sure the warmth is really inviting, but the Tannoy is just so much better with low power that on closer listen you will see how much more resolution you get along with the warmth.

I know what I'd pick.

I know the common wisdom about small tube amps, but the Guarneris and Tannoys both have two drivers. Furthermore, the impedance curve of the Guarneri is rather benign 8ohm average and a minimum of 5.8ohms. Per John Atkinson's measurements:

"At 1m on the reference axis (a few degrees below the midrange driver), the sensitivity was 86.5dB/W/m—a good result for a miniature speaker. This was not prejudiced by the impedance characteristic, and I got an average value of 8 ohms with a minimum value of 5.8 ohms (fig.12, lower trace). Many tube amps will be happy driving this load, as I found in the auditioning."

At first listen, there isn't a huge difference in efficiency between the speakers.

One more thing worth mentioning is that the Guarneris were apparently voiced and optimized for the Sonus Faber Musica amplifier (a 50+50W deal.) I had a chance to listen to them with the Musica and the sounded really good - I almost bought the amp at the time I bought the speakers ... but you know how I am about tone controls :-) and the Musica amp was as minimal as they get: volume and input selector.

I thought I knew what I'd pick too, but my ears are telling me to ignore all the numbers and preconceptions and just listen. Which I plan to do - aplenty, and with the music I am most likely to listen to (i.e. not the perfect audiophile recording.)

Alberto

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by joe1515

What is the suggested retail price for the Tannoy Sandringham's?

Joe

I was quoted $5700, but they look like a million buck$. Not just the wood, but brass accents, the 5-point star connectors in the back. They just ooze quality and charm.

Alberto

[prepress]

Originally Posted by Alberto

I know the common wisdom about small tube amps, but the Guarneris and Tannoys both have two drivers. Furthermore, the impedance curve of the Guarneri is rather benign 8ohm average and a minimum of 5.8ohms. Per John Atkinson's measurements:

"At 1m on the reference axis (a few degrees below the midrange driver), the sensitivity was 86.5dB/W/m—a good result for a miniature speaker. This was not prejudiced by the impedance characteristic, and I got an average value of 8 ohms with a minimum value of 5.8 ohms (fig.12, lower trace). Many tube amps will be happy driving this load, as I found in the auditioning."

At first listen, there isn't a huge difference in efficiency between the speakers.

One more thing worth mentioning is that the Guarneris were apparently voiced and optimized for the Sonus Faber Musica amplifier (a 50+50W deal.) I had a chance to listen to them with the Musica and the sounded really good - I almost bought the amp at the time I bought the speakers ... but you know how I am about tone controls :-) and the Musica amp was as minimal as they get: volume and input selector.

I thought I knew what I'd pick too, but my ears are telling me to ignore all the numbers and preconceptions and just listen. Which I plan to do - aplenty, and with the music I am most likely to listen to (i.e. not the perfect audiophile recording.)

Alberto

That's the key. Add in your favorite recording (audiophile or not) and that's a pretty good gauge. I know when I've auditioned anything I usually used the same 3 recordings.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I agree with PHC. The big, multiple driver speakers just don't do that well with small tube amps. I'm sure the warmth is really inviting, but the Tannoy is just so much better with low power that on closer listen you will see how much more resolution you get along with the warmth.

I know what I'd pick.

+1 Pretty easy choice in this situation

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

+1 Pretty easy choice in this situation

On paper I would agree. But based on listening it's an extremely close race. So far the Tannoy have the edge on the lower octaves (duh!) and the SF have an edge in smoothness in the upper octaves. The soft dome tweeter sound extremely smooth, but I am also surprised at the smoothness of the aluminum alloy tweeter in the Sandringhams.

They arrived with the treble control switch in the -1.5db position (which matches Serge's posts of a couple of months ago.) Surprisingly for someone like me who prefers the highs to be a bit rolled off, I prefer it in the neutral position in my room (which is pretty well treated.)

The soundstage on the Guarneris is a couple of feet higher - but that's because the tweeters are a couple of feet higher with the speakers on their stands.

In terms of width, they both throw a very nice and wide stage well beyond the speakers - the Guarneris might have a small edge in term of absolute width.

Soundstage depth is approximately the same.

The Guarneris are better at "disappearing" - which is not surprising.

In terms of warmth (a key component of deliciousness), the edge goes to the Tannoys.

I need more time with them - especially with the soon-to-arrive (I hope) Luxman amp to decide which one I prefer because it's so close. Which is not surprising because they are two wonderful looking and sounding speakers.

I wanted to get back in the "chase" and I am definitely in the middle of it. With more things to chase that I was anticipating.

Confucius said: "Man who chases two rabbits, catches none."

On the other hand, I have a unique opportunity to try a nice combination of pairings: Shindo x Luxman x Guarneris x Sandringham.

Fun, fun, fun!

Alberto

[j3brow]

keep em both. 2 sets killer but different speakers. 2 killer but different amplifiers. swap in/out over time. that would be fun. forget the money, enjoy the hobby (easy for me to say , its not my money). you would have a brunette and a blonde, whats not to like?? when the thrill of the hunt creeps up again, throw a redhead into the mix