Vinyl Dynamic Range

[Still-One]

Serge and I disagree with you almost 100%. I find a complete lack of highs in vinyl when comparing the same album in the two mediums. Then the lows. People say it is musical, I say it is slow. What fatigue in listening to digital? I listen to my 2-channel system on average 6 hours per day. Never have I said I need to turn it off because the digital sounds edgy. Sure I have many CD that sound like crap and some are very compressed but that is not the medium, that is the recording engineer.

Even before your post, earlier tonight I was comparing Richard Hawley's "Lady's Bridge" LP versus MS-300 thru the MCD-500 DAC. The highs were much clearer on via the 300, vocals were better on the LP, less hash around the vocals, the bass was better on the server.

Also, it is easy to get triple digit growth when your sales are infinitesimal to begin.

In 2008, 1.88 million vinyl albums were purchased, more than in any other year in the history of Nielsen SoundScan , which began tracking LP sales in 1991. The previous record was in 2000, when 1.5 million LP albums were sold. More than two out of every three vinyl albums bought in 2008 were purchased at an independent music store, according to SoundScan.

Vinyl record sales rose 14% between 2006 and 2007, from 858,000 to 990,000. In contrast, CD sales plummeted over the past three years, from 553.4 million in 2006 to 360.6 million in 2008. MP3 sales grew from 32.6 million to 65.8 million during the same time period, according to SoundScan.

Jim

[jdandy]

If those 2008 sale figures for CD's and vinyl are used, LP sales represented a minuscule 4 tenths of 1 percent of CD sales for 2008. Even with a CD sales slump, 360.6 million CD sales compared to 1.5 million LP sales doesn't exactly sound like a vinyl resurgence, more like a dedicated LP aficionado base building their collections.

Not to be overlooked, DVD movie sales, and now Blu-ray movie sales impacted CD sales as well. Household entertainment budgets were stretched to cover both bases, with movies taking a healthy chunk of those discretionary dollars.

2009 sales figures will most likely look worse, primariy due to the serious economic down turn that has taken its toll on all of us.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by jdandy

If those 2008 sale figures for CD's and vinyl are used, LP sales represented a minuscule 4 tenths of 1 percent of CD sales for 2008. Even with a CD sales slump, 360.6 million CD sales compared to 1.5 million LP sales doesn't exactly sound like a vinyl resurgence, more like a dedicated LP aficionado base building their collections.

Not to be overlooked, DVD movie sales, and now Blu-ray movie sales impacted CD sales as well. Household entertainment budgets were stretched to cover both bases, with movies taking a healthy chunk of those discretionary dollars.

2009 sales figures will most likely look worse, primariy due to the serious economic down turn that has taken its toll on all of us.

I am not sure if Nielsen is capturing all sales, and surely not the used market, but it is still small. That many MP3's are probably stolen/pirated every day.

I enjoy listening to vinyl on and off but it is too much of a pain for everyday listening. I have several LP's that only have two songs on a side. 9 minutes, 14 minutes, 11 minutes, 16 minutes. That is crazy.

[PHC1]

With the price of new vinyl most often being between $19 and $49 and 1.88 million albums sold, it clearly shows that mostly "audiophiles" are the ones buying. That doesn't include the used LPs being sold from "used record stores". I am pretty sure that just about any "audiophile" out there also has a decent CDP to compare yet for some reason they keep buying vinyl as well.


Jim, I don't know why your highs are not there. I am not having a problem with that at all. Then again I don't rely on others to setup my TT and cartridge and I have made sure that my setup is meticulous. I've tried Lofgren, Baerwald and Clearaudio recommended geometry and cartridge setting. Not being satisfied until perfection had no further room, I've even used the MintLP magnified loupe process and protractor to achieve "microscopic" like precision. I've played around with VTF, VTA, antiskating and every thing I possibly could including my fully adjustable phono stage cartridge loading. My vinyl gets cleaned on an RCM and is spotless as I use a 3 step cleaning process. I found and feel I squeezed everything out of my current setup. At this point my rig sounds as good and even better than many other rigs I've heard so far and I am only getting started. I am happy with my vinyl experience so far.

If someone is not happy with vinyl sound, I know for sure they are not exactly getting 100% out of it.

[1KW]

I have found that the Baerwald protractor made a big improvement with the performance of my cartridge. The sound is very well balanced, low's to high's. You can download and print the protractor for your tt from various websites. It is very easy to do.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 1KW

I have found that the Baerwald protractor made a big improvement with the performance of my cartridge. The sound is very well balanced, low's to high's. You can download and print the protractor for your tt from various websites. It is very easy to do.

I didn't even come close with those printouts. There is nothing like the "real deal". A Feickert or similar protractor. The MintLP is what really "fine tuned" my sound and made it perfect. It eliminates parallax effect for a perfect alignment. It has to be custom ordered for your table and arm. Best Tractor / Arc Protractor / Mint Tractor / tonearm alignment / Yip Mint Protractor / Mintlp Protractor



[IMG][/IMG]

[Tonepub]

Originally Posted by Stillone

Serge and I disagree with you almost 100%. I find a complete lack of highs in vinyl when comparing the same album in the two mediums. Then the lows. People say it is musical, I say it is slow. What fatigue in listening to digital? I listen to my 2-channel system on average 6 hours per day. Never have I said I need to turn it off because the digital sounds edgy. Sure I have many CD that sound like crap and some are very compressed but that is not the medium, that is the recording engineer.

Even before your post, earlier tonight I was comparing Richard Hawley's "Lady's Bridge" LP versus MS-300 thru the MCD-500 DAC. The highs were much clearer on via the 300, vocals were better on the LP, less hash around the vocals, the bass was better on the server.

Also, it is easy to get triple digit growth when your sales are infinitesimal to begin.

In 2008, 1.88 million vinyl albums were purchased, more than in any other year in the history of Nielsen SoundScan , which began tracking LP sales in 1991. The previous record was in 2000, when 1.5 million LP albums were sold. More than two out of every three vinyl albums bought in 2008 were purchased at an independent music store, according to SoundScan.

Vinyl record sales rose 14% between 2006 and 2007, from 858,000 to 990,000. In contrast, CD sales plummeted over the past three years, from 553.4 million in 2006 to 360.6 million in 2008. MP3 sales grew from 32.6 million to 65.8 million during the same time period, according to SoundScan.

Jim

Well, first you're comparing a 6,000 CD player to about a 1200 dollar LP setup.. But seriously, if you want the analog magic, it's going to cost big dough if you really want to be blown away.

As for record sales, about 42 million LP's were pressed last year between Europe and the US. Most audiophile titles don't make the numbers and even a lot of stuff by the majors doesn't either.

Not that I don't like digital, but when the planets line up, LP is still the most compelling medium. It just depends if you want to go through the pain to get it. And CD just keeps getting better!

[two dot]

Originally Posted by tonepub

Well, first you're comparing a 6,000 CD player to about a 1200 dollar LP setup.. But seriously, if you want the analog magic, it's going to cost big dough if you really want to be blown away.

As for record sales, about 42 million LP's were pressed last year between Europe and the US. Most audiophile titles don't make the numbers and even a lot of stuff by the majors doesn't either.

Not that I don't like digital, but when the planets line up, LP is still the most compelling medium. It just depends if you want to go through the pain to get it. And CD just keeps getting better!

Well said.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by tonepub

Well, first you're comparing a 6,000 CD player to about a 1200 dollar LP setup.. But seriously, if you want the analog magic, it's going to cost big dough if you really want to be blown away.

As for record sales, about 42 million LP's were pressed last year between Europe and the US. Most audiophile titles don't make the numbers and even a lot of stuff by the majors doesn't either.

Not that I don't like digital, but when the planets line up, LP is still the most compelling medium. It just depends if you want to go through the pain to get it. And CD just keeps getting better!

Gee Jeff, I guess you missed that I have gone thru a couple of Linn's and an Oracle. I have also spent a couple of hours with the +100k Continuum (bested by a Zanden player in the same set-up) and numerous hours with SME 20-12's, etc. I only have this table to play the few discs I have.

I am just comparing them to what else was in the room or with my own player. As far as them sounding as good as the better players from DCS, Zanden, or MBL , not even close.

[Tonepub]

Yeah I guess I did, just noticed what was in your signature...

We lived with the 60k Continuum for a couple months, can't say I was terribly impressed with that either.