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  #21  
Old 11-18-2021, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maks View Post
I can go either way on the handles personally, but I would agree for gear of that size/weight it doesn't really make sense. And yes, there has to be a way to fully bypass tone controls if not needed. Like I said though, I get what they are going for. The purest signal possible. At least they didn't remove the rec/fixed out, although as I mentioned in another thread I feel like removing tape loops from their all analog products is a mistake. Accuphase still includes tape loops. That all said--I believe this product will sell to their intended user base.
I agree with much of this. As to the handles, I would agree they make a lot more sense on a large amplifier, for this reason I never bothered to look into handles for my MCD/MDA1000 units. I like the way they look just as they are. But for some reason, I found myself liking the look of the handles on this product. Don't know why. Tone controls? Well, I'm in the tone control camp, and probably always will be. Without getting into that debate, if I could afford this unit, I'd probably be hesitant to buy it for that reason. Would it stop me? It might, which brings me to the discussion about the tape/processor loop. Absent tone controls, I'd want some way to insert a processor, such as an equalizer. Now you're taking both options away from me! These are major reasons why I've held on to my C40 preamp for so long...it has both defeatable tone controls, AND a processor loop. It has everything I could want, I can add tape recorders on top of all that. It has really served all my needs well, and sound great.

And yet, when I see the C12000, I'm still moved by it!
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No. 35


Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers

Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna

Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling

Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator

High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2021, 12:01 AM
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C12000 + MC3500 MKII + Select your Speakers = Build your own Audio Heaven!
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2021, 01:09 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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I think the D1200 will be soon arriving. The C1200 is a gorgeous piece. I would say D1200 + MC 3500 MKII + speakers = "Audio Heaven". For me, unless the D1200 is a different design, i.e., not a digital preamp, I will have no interest in the C1200 and will wait on D1200, but Mac has always had a reference preamp. Tone controls cannot be accomplished in a fully balance dual mono design. Does anyone know the price? If I were in the market for a high end pre, this would be the one for me.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 11-19-2021 at 12:11 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-19-2021, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Does anyone know the price?

Best

Charles
The word on the street is $8,000 per module, so $16,000 MSRP for the complete C12000.
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Pete

No. 35


Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers

Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna

Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling

Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator

High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2021, 05:57 AM
jrsub jrsub is offline
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As far as pricing, it looks like $16,000 for complete unit.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/press-re...-preamplifier/
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  #26  
Old 11-19-2021, 08:48 AM
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What is lacking in the d1100 that would make an attractive upgrade?
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2021, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Pete View Post
I agree with much of this. As to the handles, I would agree they make a lot more sense on a large amplifier, for this reason I never bothered to look into handles for my MCD/MDA1000 units. I like the way they look just as they are. But for some reason, I found myself liking the look of the handles on this product. Don't know why. Tone controls? Well, I'm in the tone control camp, and probably always will be. Without getting into that debate, if I could afford this unit, I'd probably be hesitant to buy it for that reason. Would it stop me? It might, which brings me to the discussion about the tape/processor loop. Absent tone controls, I'd want some way to insert a processor, such as an equalizer. Now you're taking both options away from me! These are major reasons why I've held on to my C40 preamp for so long...it has both defeatable tone controls, AND a processor loop. It has everything I could want, I can add tape recorders on top of all that. It has really served all my needs well, and sound great.

And yet, when I see the C12000, I'm still moved by it!
Yep, we are completely on the same page. The only serious "upgrade" I'd consider would be a new C2300--no DAC like the current models. But if I'm being honest, I have zero complaints, I just want the fancier display of the newer models
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2021, 11:26 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankkor View Post
What is lacking in the d1100 that would make an attractive upgrade?
Basically nothing. Someone noted an incompatibility with the C1200 but on the website it has the C1200 and D1100 together as "partners", so I don't know if the new pre is "incompatible". this would be the only reason. For me since I don't do vinyl, I would not upgrade to a new D1200.

Best

Charles
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2021, 11:33 AM
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Vintage Pete Vintage Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Basically nothing. Someone noted an incompatibility with the C1200 but on the website it has the C1200 and D1100 together as "partners", so I don't know if the new pre is "incompatible". this would be the only reason. For me since I don't do vinyl, I would not upgrade to a new D1200.

Best

Charles
Charles...this may come from a footnote on the C12000 page that says "1) The C12000 does not include a direct interface to the D1100 Digital Preamplifier".

I didn't see where the website has the C12000 and D1100 together as "partners", I may be missing something.
__________________
Pete

No. 35


Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers

Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna

Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling

Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator

High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop
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  #30  
Old 11-19-2021, 11:34 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsub View Post
As far as pricing, it looks like $16,000 for complete unit.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/press-re...-preamplifier/
If this is correct, I hope all recognize the tremendous value this new model represents. Certainly it will be marginally superior to the C1100 but I would not do a trade-in myself. However, many (essentially all other manufacturers) when they come out with a new model tout the tremendous increase in sonics and of course charge about 50% more. It's nothing more than a ripoff for the most part. If I knew nothing about the high end and compared this new pre based on capability, looks, weight, dual mono, fully balanced, two piece thus isolating control from amplification, and simply the ease of operation in the way the switching and controls work, the unit has the look and quality of a 50K piece.

It's incredible, if this is correct, that the price increase would be only a grand. Along those lines, I think the MC3500 MK II at 15K, is ridiculously under valued. For example, you look at an amp like the Statement VAC 452 iQ Musicblock power amplifier at 450 watts per channel at 75K per amp. I've been around the block. I know all the arguments as to its superiority over the Mac. Sorry, don't buy it (no pun intended). I would much rather have the 3500 in my system unless I could sell the VAC and pocket the difference. Also note it replaces the 452 IQ a similar extremely expensive tube amp. How long was it the "Statement" before the new "Statement"? Small manufacturers absolutely must come out with new models and circuits and we assume they are better.

Mac has been designing power amps and pre's for 70 years. A 2301 or a 3500 MK II are the only tube amps I would trust with my XVX. If this price is correct, the C1200 is ridiculously underpriced following in the same vein as the 3500. For a little over 30 grand you can experience as good no, frankly much better "tubes" than exists anywhere.

Best

Charles

____________________
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: Plinth of X material built by Wilson with rubber cushions or cushions of V material to get my Thor off the floor. Plinth supported by Wilson Acoustic Diodes. McIntosh MC3500 MK II mono power amp, one per channel
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP 881 BR player; MCT 500 transport; MVP 851 DVD player
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house.

Last edited by Charles; 11-19-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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