Why Do I Have Better Luck With Bookshelf Speakers?

[Higgens]

In my experience, front-ported speakers are much more forgiving when it comes to placement within a room compared to rear-ported speakers.

[LarsT]

Originally Posted by Higgens

In my experience, front-ported speakers are much more forgiving when it comes to placement within a room compared to rear-ported speakers.

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for the reminder. Advice I failed to follow previously.
How about a down firing port? Where does that fit in?

[tdelahanty]

Originally Posted by LarsT

I have been struggling to find a pair of floorstanders that, well, floor me. However, I have had much better luck with bookshelf speakers. I have been wondering why that is, but I can’t seem to put my finger on it, aside from two way and full range considerations. What am I missing? I have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other, brighter vs warmer, the same brand, different brands, etc. I just can’t seem to get it right, and I would like to get off the merry go round.
I realize that there are many variables to consider, but I guess my question is more of a general speaker question as opposed to room acoustics, speaker placement, etc.

Any and all thoughts would be welcome.

Maybe you are already " home". Are the gods of audio telling you something? Many times I've made trades that I regretted.

[LarsT]

Here is a quote from a Revel Ultima Studio2 review:

"Speaking of soundstage for a moment the Studio2's ability to virtually disappear was a feat in and of itself and one I wasn't expecting given their size yet they disappeared like a pair of monitor speakers leaving a vast, wide open soundstage in their wake."

This is what I am trying to achieve. The problem is that I have read similar descriptions in other reviews, but it hasn't panned out for me.

[LarsT]

Originally Posted by tdelahanty

Maybe you are already " home". Are the gods of audio telling you something? Many times I've made trades that I regretted.

Nope....not “home” yet, although that is a wonderful thought. I know I can do better. And by better, I mean better for me; not necessarily more expensive or what is more popular. I believe I have reached the point where, ultimately, I will actually let my ears be my guide. I went down a dark road too many times because I fell prey to something “better” than what I had at the time. That’s not to say that the advice I received hasn’t helped me make good decisions also. For example, Greg turned me on to Aerial 5T. Now I have two pair and have zero interest in finding something “better.”

[rnrmf1971]

Originally Posted by LarsT

Here is a quote from a Revel Ultima Studio2 review:

"Speaking of soundstage for a moment the Studio2's ability to virtually disappear was a feat in and of itself and one I wasn't expecting given their size yet they disappeared like a pair of monitor speakers leaving a vast, wide open soundstage in their wake."

This is what I am trying to achieve. The problem is that I have read similar descriptions in other reviews, but it hasn't panned out for me.

Given the quote is from a Revel, have you considered a Salon 2?

I think I know what you mean about the holographic experience, though - I had PMC Fact 8 floor standing speakers about 5 years ago, and the floating soundstage, image precision in the soundstage, and overwhelming resolution was incredibly engaging - they just didn't have nearly enough bass to my ears and it made for fatiguing listening on the majority of what I listened to. They didn't sound like a floor standing speaker at all - it was a high precision monitor that just happened to be a floor stander, imo. PMC makes larger versions, now, that I'd like to hear at some point.

When I sold them, I considered some bookshelf speakers because they sometimes have the perception of a more balanced sound with those engaging attributes, but I've been drawn to floor standing speakers, too. I'm happy with my floor standing speakers for now because both sound incredibly natural.

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by LarsT

Well that certainly explains my thoughts much better that I can. I'm guessing part of my problem is my lack of understanding of the science involved...or inability to articulate it.

A large part of what I'm missing with floorstanders is the holographic sound. It's amazing how I have owned monitors that sound "right" immediately, with very little positioning. B&W 805D3 and Aerial Acoustics 5T immediately come to mind. I had the instant wow factor. A lack of scale is the major drawback. On the other hand, I have spent hours adjusting positioning of floorstanders, trying in vain to find the sweet spot. Acoustic treatments have helped with bass response, but not the overall image. And I have never had the wow factor right off the bat.

So perhaps I am looking for a speaker that is very forgiving in terms of room positioning so I can find the elusive holographic sound where the music is floating all around me. The best I have hear to date is Avalon ISIS, but that is not a realistic option for me.

Holographic sound is a product of perfect and coherent timing of the audio across the entire frequency range. Small and sometimes aggressively shaped baffles and very close attention to eliminating diffraction are required to avoid time-smearing the transients. This is where monitors can have a big advantage over floorstanders.

If you look at floorstanders that truly create a wide and deep soundstage they all have these common characteristics: Smooth surfaces with no sharp corners or edges. Flush mounted drivers. No protruding hardware. As small as possible front baffle size. Tapered or dramatically shaped baffles.

Some examples are Wilson, Vivid Giya, Avalon Acoustics, YG Acoustics, Magico, a few Dynaudio models, etc.

I think that DSP will come to the rescue for monitor speakers and subwoofers - creating a best of both worlds scenario where you get great imaging and great subwoofer/room integration that is somewhat independent of placement. The NHT XDS was such a system but is no longer in production.

Tom

[radio times]

I was very impressed with the B&W 705 s2's when I tried them with the Naim Star, and the Sonus Faber Sonneto 1's were close behind. Might hold fire for the Sonneto 2's if I can hear a pair. Both speakers outdistanced the floor standing Focal 936's by a large margin. I should avoid the rabbit hole after roughing it quite nicely with Ruark these few years with ye olde book shelves. We can get aircraft hanger sized living rooms in blighty, but most of our village huts are the correct size for stand mounters. They have the imaging and transient's I crave and cannot find unless I pay very silly money for floor standers. Ruarky baby will go in the bedroom.

[1KW]

Lars I am surprised the Strads are not giving you the performance your looking for. Maybe if you post a few pictures of your room that would be helpful ?

[bart]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Holographic sound is a product of perfect and coherent timing of the audio across the entire frequency range. Small and sometimes aggressively shaped baffles and very close attention to eliminating diffraction are required to avoid time-smearing the transients. This is where monitors can have a big advantage over floorstanders.

If you look at floorstanders that truly create a wide and deep soundstage they all have these common characteristics: Smooth surfaces with no sharp corners or edges. Flush mounted drivers. No protruding hardware. As small as possible front baffle size. Tapered or dramatically shaped baffles.

Some examples are Wilson, Vivid Giya, Avalon Acoustics, YG Acoustics, Magico, a few Dynaudio models, etc.

I think that DSP will come to the rescue for monitor speakers and subwoofers - creating a best of both worlds scenario where you get great imaging and great subwoofer/room integration that is somewhat independent of placement. The NHT XDS was such a system but is no longer in production.

Tom

Another good post.

I own Vivids, and they do image in a terrific way.
But... they didn't really do so until they were positioned in a professional manner.
I had 2 room treatment companies in our room.
The first gave advice that helped us only a bit, with the second everything fell into its place: suddenly the magic happened.

My advice: stick to your speakers, they are truly world class - heard them a couple of times, also at Ivan's - but have them positioned in their best spot, also consider your seating position.
You might have to reorganise your whole room, but it will still cost you much much less than even a pair of high class speaker cables, let alone new speakers.

Good luck!