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  #4141  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:50 AM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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A quote from Absolute Sound, in turn an adaptation from an article from Robert Harley back in the day (but still very valid!). It explians why headroom and overall dynamics and Oomph can be improved significantly through the use of SUB(s) and High Pass filters:

"Adding an actively powered subwoofer can greatly increase your system’s dynamic range, bass extension, midrange clarity, and ability to play louder without strain. The additional amplifier power and low-frequency driver allow the system to reproduce musical peaks at higher levels. Moreover, removing low frequencies from the signal driving the main loudspeakers lets them play louder because they don’t have to reproduce low frequencies. The midrange often becomes clearer because the woofer cone isn’t furiously moving back and forth, trying to reproduce low bass. This improvement in a small speaker’s performance can be dramatic. The small woofer’s excursion is no longer a limiting factor in how loudly the system will play when low frequencies are filtered from the signal driving it. The midrange is much cleaner, and the overall system sounds like a large, full-range speaker."

This is what our enlightened colleagues in this forum had advised me when complaining about a lack of Oomph in classical music reproduction. Thanks! Even though my loudspeakers are full floor-standers, their capacity to work for the entire range of frequencies is compromised. Eliminating those first 100 Hz or so is key here, along with a stereo SUB setup ... This hobby enables us to keep learning even in old age

Last edited by Musica Amantem; 09-18-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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  #4142  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:28 PM
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You all ever have your rectifier glow blue/purple for a split second when powering on? What is this? And is it a sign of a short active life left on the tube?
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  #4143  
Old 09-20-2017, 01:13 PM
Wgarcia Wgarcia is online now
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One of my rectifier tubes (among the 3 I have for the HO) did a quick little start up show like you described and the tube was new. I'd say no big deal unless it explodes and projects shards of glass onto your breakfast. I hate that. Also, to address Musica's "campaign for filtering" (CFF) again, I have to note that my HO with its unmolested signal and 2 RELs run as they're designed (or at least with "high level" inputs fed from the HO), still astonishes with plenty of reserve power, and even with filter signal molestation (FSM!) yer gonna get to the Clip Zone eventually even over 100hz (lower midrange? Upper low range? Extremely low high range?). I suspect Musica has invested his retirement funds in filters and is trying to get that market moving…makes sense really…I just feel that when the little electrons run into the filter some are brutally separated from their little brothers (and sisters) and are forever denied their right to ride around the circuits of the HO. Sad…

Last edited by Wgarcia; 09-20-2017 at 01:17 PM.
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  #4144  
Old 09-20-2017, 01:29 PM
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Don't listen to him M.A.!
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  #4145  
Old 09-20-2017, 02:02 PM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgarcia View Post
One of my rectifier tubes (among the 3 I have for the HO) did a quick little start up show like you described and the tube was new. I'd say no big deal unless it explodes and projects shards of glass onto your breakfast. I hate that. Also, to address Musica's "campaign for filtering" (CFF) again, I have to note that my HO with its unmolested signal and 2 RELs run as they're designed (or at least with "high level" inputs fed from the HO), still astonishes with plenty of reserve power, and even with filter signal molestation (FSM!) yer gonna get to the Clip Zone eventually even over 100hz (lower midrange? Upper low range? Extremely low high range?). I suspect Musica has invested his retirement funds in filters and is trying to get that market moving…makes sense really…I just feel that when the little electrons run into the filter some are brutally separated from their little brothers (and sisters) and are forever denied their right to ride around the circuits of the HO. Sad…
The proof is in the pudding ... Have you tried what you are criticizing, or is it all a product of your childish imagination? It is also not about clipping limits, its about headroom, dynamics and seamless bass integration ... Google that, Mr. Studio.

Last edited by Musica Amantem; 09-20-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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  #4146  
Old 09-20-2017, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgarcia View Post
One of my rectifier tubes (among the 3 I have for the HO) did a quick little start up show like you described and the tube was new. I'd say no big deal unless it explodes and projects shards of glass onto your breakfast. I hate that.…

It is my Sophia 274b which is the offender. It is a couple years old now. Maybe 3. I also noticed a bit of noise this morning which was remedied by its replacement. I think I will try cleaning the pins. I hope it is still serviceable. I doubt I will buy another one. It is not as good as it's price would infer IMHO. I do like it anchoring my LP-3 though. I had an 80 do it recently as well. It caused a pop upon startup as well. It went to the trash bin. I have a box of back ups for that socket.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BearCityUSA View Post
It is my Sophia 274b which is the offender. It is a couple years old now. Maybe 3. I also noticed a bit of noise this morning which was remedied by its replacement. I think I will try cleaning the pins. I hope it is still serviceable. I doubt I will buy another one. It is not as good as it's price would infer IMHO. I do like it anchoring my LP-3 though. I had an 80 do it recently as well. It caused a pop upon startup as well. It went to the trash bin. I have a box of back ups for that socket.
I had a couple of Sophia mesh plate 274B's. One failed after about two months. The other has been strong using it, on and off, for a couple of years.

It is one of my favorites. Another is the Brimar 5R4GS, in the LP-2 only since Dennis did the IIPS mod in the amp where now an RCA 5U4G has been as good as any.
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  #4148  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:13 AM
Wgarcia Wgarcia is online now
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My 274B doesn't sound as good in my HO as that new fangled Gold Lion GZ34, but I stuck the 274 in a foam block so I can look at it. Childish, but hey now...

Well Musica, I mean no disrespect, and I hope I never lose my childish imagination. The point I'm making is simply that for me and (I imagine) many other SEP users it's simply not necessary to filter out the low frequencies if things sound fine. Or practice mirth control (that was a pun by the way…heh heh…). Exactly what does "mister studio" mean? I've spent decades as a home audio enthusiast, successful working professional musician, and successful live concert sound technician. Is that what you mean? Is it Snark Week? In both home and professional applications I've used mono amps, quads of amps with electronic crossovers, active and passive filters, designed systems of all kinds, dated Supermodels (tossed that in for no reason and it's not likely verifiable), and have developed a pretty good sense of how things work and what I need to hear. I do wish you success in your campaign to convert each of us into Filterphiles, but it's still no filters for my HO…no no no.
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  #4149  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:20 AM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgarcia View Post
My 274B doesn't sound as good in my HO as that new fangled Gold Lion GZ34, but I stuck the 274 in a foam block so I can look at it. Childish, but hey now...

Well Musica, I mean no disrespect, and I hope I never lose my childish imagination. The point I'm making is simply that for me and (I imagine) many other SEP users it's simply not necessary to filter out the low frequencies if things sound fine. Or practice mirth control (that was a pun by the way…heh heh…). Exactly what does "mister studio" mean? I've spent decades as a home audio enthusiast, successful working professional musician, and successful live concert sound technician. Is that what you mean? Is it Snark Week? In both home and professional applications I've used mono amps, quads of amps with electronic crossovers, active and passive filters, designed systems of all kinds, dated Supermodels (tossed that in for no reason and it's not likely verifiable), and have developed a pretty good sense of how things work and what I need to hear. I do wish you success in your campaign to convert each of us into Filterphiles, but it's still no filters for my HO…no no no.
Pitty your vast "knowledge" will stop you from trying potential improvements ... To each his own
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  #4150  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:04 PM
Wgarcia Wgarcia is online now
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I might have previously mentioned that the REL "High Level" input design allows the TONE of the amp from which the signal is obtained from the speaker output to be reproduced…that's part of why I refuse to give up that part of the tube mojo as 100hz is well into much of the bass range where particular tone actually matters, and I prefer that the entire range of tone of the HO be available. As far as my "knowledge" stopping me from trying things, I recently found a box of filters (luckily I labeled them) I had from some old project and stuck one of my RELs (the larger of the 2) near enough to my preamp to try exactly what you suggest using the longest single ended cables I could find (a compromise as unbalanced cables start to influence tone when longer lengths are used…there's that pesky "knowledge"again). This sounded tonally inferior to the full range setup I prefer, possibly due to the fact that subs are generally not good at reproducing lower mids…I keep mine at around the 50hz point where my mains naturally drop off, and this matches with the HO very well. Please don't let this discourage you from following the amp usage tips provided by the Absolute Sound, as certainly the knowledge you potentially gain from that will help you develop your hearing skills.
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