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  #1  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:01 PM
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xdrixn xdrixn is offline
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Default Any sx owners who compared their amps with...

Mcintosh's mc452?

I'd be curious to hear your thought as I'm considering selling my said mc452 and buying Californian.

thank you gents

Last edited by xdrixn; 07-27-2016 at 08:58 AM.
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2016, 02:12 PM
Mercury3 Mercury3 is offline
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No but I currently have two pairs of Wyred4sound SX-1000 Mono Blocks and I also had (but sold a pair of the SX-500 Mono Blocks) and I have compared with many power amps other than McIntosh so I can offer my opinion.

I've had a bit of an obsession with power amps and have owned more than 20 high end power amps in the last three years.

In my opinion where the class D amps excel is in the bass response. The SX-1000 provides a very tight and solid low bass with excellent control over the woofers. I feel my Classe Audio CA-400 and CA301 did just as good a job but I quickly replaced them feeling happy I no longer had to lift those 100 plus pound amps.

In addition the SX-1000's fit nicely on a small shelf under a couple of small tables on each side of my equipment rack thus freeing up more space for my other larger equipment on the rack.

I like them on bass and feel they can probably compete with almost any amp on bass. However full range I felt they fell short. Every conventional design I've compared them with had a much sweeter midrange & high end as well as better imaging. Better in almost every way.

Some amps I made the comparison with are:

Audio Research Reference 110 ( bass response aside not even a close call)
Pass Labs XA-30.8 (also not even a close call)
Classe Audio CA400 (Way better full range again not even close)
Classe Audio CA301 (Way better full range " " ")
Audio Research D400MKII (Better unless over driven)

I'm not familiar with the McIntosh MC452 but I'd be willing to bet it's a far better amp than anything Wyred4sound makes. Hang on to it.
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:50 PM
Randy Myers Randy Myers is offline
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Chops-Tube just traded his amp to his brother for an older W4S ST-250 I think. He liked the sound vastly better.

EJ (owner of W4S) told me that the mk-II are vastly improved. I just read that they in fact just won the Absolute Sounds 2016 Editor's Choice Awards.

While I have not heard the W4S amplifier I can say I replaced a McIntosh with a W4S pre-amp and the W4S sounds a whole lot better. More open, better imagining, much more control of the bottom end.

And one thing to keep in mind, I grew up in the shadow of the McIntosh factory (Binghamton, NY) and they are very near and dear to my heart, and to be completely clear I now live near the Wyred 4 Sound factory (I live in Nipomo, they are just up the road in Atascadero, CA)... therefore both companies are special to me.

One other thing to consider is that every amp he listed that he compared against the W4S are multiple times more expensive, even used. Also he was not comparing the new models from W4S. His opinion and experiences are certainly valid, just looking at the whole picture.

Last edited by Randy Myers; 03-26-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:02 PM
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For the price, a pair of SX-1000 is a great value. But it's still a class D amp and won't be much of a contender for the McIntosh MC452. Two completely different amps, two completely different price points.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:24 PM
advanced101 advanced101 is offline
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I had the upgraded mAmps (Newest module) in my digital rig, and currently have the MC452 in my analog system. I brought the mAmps up one day to compare against the 452 and although they are nice they really don't compare. The 452 is a legendary amp. Something you keep forever.
This is coming from a big W4S fan, my digital rig consisted of a DAC2DSDSE and mAmps.

Last edited by advanced101; 03-27-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2016, 03:21 PM
chops-tube chops-tube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
Chops-Tube just traded his amp to his brother for an older W4S ST-250 I think. He liked the sound vastly better.

This is true. I swapped my fully decked out Odyssey Audio Khartago Kismet amp for an old but mint W4S ST-250. Being as I'm only powering a pair of small bookshelf speakers with it, and they're crossed over at 60 Hz, bass response of the amp really isn't much of a concern, though the upper bass, lower midrange attack and detail are, and come through brilliantly with the W4S amp. Vocals are a touch more open and forward, treble a bit more airy but silky smooth. The sound stage is also a touch wider and deeper.

A few weeks back I decided to get a pair of WW balanced IC's to run from my preamp to the amp. It wasn't a huge improvement, but it was an improvement, one that I'm glad I did.

With all that said, it really just boils down to system synergy. What works well in one system doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work well in another system.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2016, 08:49 PM
popspin popspin is offline
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Default SX-1000 vs Mc 452 and a couple of Ayre's

I bought 5 SX-1000's for my system about 5 years ago and was very pleased after letting some Aragon amps go on Audiogon, Back then I dealt directly with EJ. Thats not the case anymore...a much larger operation now than it was back then. W4S has had justified success with their products, the SX-1000 included.
I have constantly upgraded my system over the years and after changing out almost all other components the synergy was no longer there. As my system became more revealing I felt the amps no longer provided the sound characteristics I wanted. As stated earlier in this thread, the bass was solid but mids were not sweet enough for my ears and the high end sounded too sharp. This was worsened when turning the volume up high.
I have compared the M-amp which my son purchased before replacing it with the Mc 452. The 452 was just a different level but also a totally different price class. While the SX-1000's are an excellent value at the price they lose in a direct comparison with the 452.
I made a decision to leave Class D amps for Ayre. I know the price differential is even greater but you asked for comparisons with other amps. The W4S amps are not even close to my current Ayre's, except, perhaps, in the bass regions. But the "Twenty " upgrades on the Ayres (mono blocks and stereo) closed that gap to where I no longer miss the W4S on the bass either. Imaging, soundstage, musicality, detail and "balance" are all way better on the Ayre's. And i can now crank my system without the sound grating on my ears. At lower volumes the SX-1000's were "OK" but it was frustrating not to be able to listen comfortably at higher
I know W4S has a replacement planned (The Statement) which I attempted to "beta test" back in December but was told it wasn't ready but would be by the end of January. Still no new amp as of early April. So I tried to stay in the W4S family but it didn't work out. I liked the design with the transformer which has is a similar concept to the Theta Prometheus. Time will tell how good the The Statement will be. My guess is that it will be a nice step up from the SX's.
Wyred is a great company and EJ a very young and talented engineer. But the position they have staked out in the business is as a value brand and that usually has some limits.
If you are using a system primarily for HT I think the SX's can be quite satisfactory. Critically listening to music on the SX's vs a good Class A/B design demonstrates the delta between the designs. Perhaps over time the gap will be closed but keep in mind that even the more wacky priced Class D amps from Mola Mola to D'Agostino have been reported to not always have the musicality some desire. On the other hand there appear to be many satisfied owners too.
The point is that this hobby is personal and each of us hears with out own ears and have to reach our own decisions about what works best for each of us. So my advice is to ignore the responses in this thread and demo the amps in your system, in your room with the music you like to listen to. Only then will you truly have your answer.
popspin
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2016, 12:36 AM
Randy Myers Randy Myers is offline
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I am very anxious to see the new Statement series. EJ's description sounds impressive. And from what I understand a completely new designed class D amplifier. Something that no one else uses.

Check out this review...

Best Of RMAF 2015: Wyred4Sound Statement, KEF Blade Two | DAR__KO

I know that EJ has purchased a pair of KEF Reference 3 speakers to use for demos and shows moving forward. I really want to listen to these but... not setup yet ....

BTW- W4S does indeed do work with A/B amplifiers, under the SST label. Some may know the name Ampzilla and Son of Ampzilla. These are built by and I believe owned by EJ. They share the facility in Atascadero. Therefore it is not that they do not make other types of amplifiers. He has designed newer and what he feels are better amplifier designs in class D. I have not as of yet done direct comparisons to my Goldmund. At some point I would like to.

Last edited by Randy Myers; 03-28-2016 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 03-29-2016, 10:27 PM
popspin popspin is offline
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Default Yes, the Statement should be an interesting option!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
I am very anxious to see the new Statement series. EJ's description sounds impressive. And from what I understand a completely new designed class D amplifier. Something that no one else uses.

Check out this review...

Best Of RMAF 2015: Wyred4Sound Statement, KEF Blade Two | DAR__KO

I know that EJ has purchased a pair of KEF Reference 3 speakers to use for demos and shows moving forward. I really want to listen to these but... not setup yet ....

BTW- W4S does indeed do work with A/B amplifiers, under the SST label. Some may know the name Ampzilla and Son of Ampzilla. These are built by and I believe owned by EJ. They share the facility in Atascadero. Therefore it is not that they do not make other types of amplifiers. He has designed newer and what he feels are better amplifier designs in class D. I have not as of yet done direct comparisons to my Goldmund. At some point I would like to.
Hi Randy;
A few thoughts:
1) I really wish Wyred had the Statement products available when I was searching for amps to replace mySX-1000's. I had completed my speaker search after 18 months and found I agreed with EJ. I bought the KEF Blade Two's along with the Reference C4 center and Reference 1's for surrounds. I am beyond pleased with these speakers. I started using them with the SX-1000's and the Blades, with their revealing nature, demonstrated how the SX-1000's were not really up to the task, for my ears. That is why I attempted to get the speak with EJ and figure out a way to beta the Statement. But unlike my previous purchase when I dealt directly with EJ, he was being protected by the sales staff who refused to let me speak with him. Thats a great way to start the process of losing a customer, which is exactly what happened.
2) Yes, I was aware of the Ampzilla. It was never a smooth sweet amp like the Ayre so I can understand why EJ would feel his newer mINT and mAMP might sound better than the Ampzilla. But after hearing the mAMP in my home I realized that wasn't the answer for me.
3) The new Class D module being developed by EJ might be the best thing since sliced bread. But without the ability to hear it I was not willing to wait until the amp is eventually ready, whenever that will be...`but really, should we expect it to be superior to the Mola Mola, D'Agistino, Levinson or Theta?? Remember Wyred is still a value product so for the anticipated price in the neighborhood of $3,500 I am sure it will be a class leader. But its quite a stretch to think it will compete amps costing 2 or more than 10 x as much. Thats not a knock on a $3,500 amp but lets be realistic here. The SX-1000 was a great amp for the price but there is a limit to the sound quality relative to other amps I have listened to, even if those other amps cost significantly more (Mc, Aestetix, Moon, Theta, Prima Luna, Classe, Rogers, Ayre).
I was not seeking the best Class D amp. I was seeking the best amp for my system and my ears regardless of class. In the end that was not Wyred although they had the advantage of incumbency heading into the process.
4) I have been using the Wyred USB > SPDIF converter. On a lark I brought home a Berkeley USB > SPDIF/AESEBU converter. Once again, same results! The Wyred product was very good for the price but in an A/B comparison there was a clear difference between the two converters that anybody could hear through the Blade Two's that strongly favored the Berkeley.

I have been enjoying audio since learning how to listen to a system as a young boy. My father had classic Marantz tube equipment with amazing monitoring speakers designed in the 50's by the head of RCA Acoustics division, Harry Olsen. I still remember listening to chamber music and piano concertos on that system.
Now, with over 50+ years of experience in this hobby I know the sound signature I am after. But, of course, that only applies to my ears and my audio sensibilities. That's why I can't say my choice should be yours or anybody else's choice.
I have a few systems so I will stay open to what Wyred creates in the future to see if there is a fit when the need arises. I am curious to hear what EJ would create if budget were not a concern.
Happy listening!!
popspin
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2016, 12:32 AM
Randy Myers Randy Myers is offline
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I certainly cannot disagree with you. It would be unrealistic to expect an amp in the $2k - $3k range to compete against those of the likes of Levinson, D'Agistino, etc. From my understanding Wyred amps are great value amps. I have never heard one of their amps. I do, however, feel that all W4S equipment is top quality built and great value.

As for per-amps I do believe that the STP-SE compares against those that are many times it's price. EJ's amazing designed volume control and extremely unique hybrid passive/active pre-amp is fantastic. I have read articles directly comparing it against the likes of Esoteric and according to the reviewer besting it in most comparisons.

I also know that their DACs compare well above the price level. No I would not put them against the Lampi or the Berkleys, for example, but certainly against many that are multiple times their price. And again many of their specialty items such as their brand new Recovery are considered the best of the class.

Since getting back into this amazing hobby I have relearned much and learned the new waves of this industry. I have searched out what I consider Giant Killer type pieces since I cannot afford to buy the entire system at the top end all at one time. A great example is the Goldmund Job amplifier. This has been directly compared against amplifiers 10x it's price. Actually it comes off the assembly line of an amp that is virtually identical that is 10x it's price. Job is sold only directly from the Goldmund factory in Switzerland, with no distribution network, no dealers, no promotion or advertising, basic industrial cases versus the fancy Goldmund branded amplifiers. But almost identical parts, same technicians, same assembly processes, etc. Tremendous sounding amplifiers at very reasonable prices.

Obviously if I were getting Blade 2's (and could afford Blade 2's) I would be looking at more elaborate amps, but Job mono's would certainly be in the mix for consideration.

However the Wyred pre-amp may very well still be in my system. I did in fact replace a McIntosh and the W4S sounds quite a bit better.

Anyway, I certainly understand your looking at other amps with those amazing speakers. I am also anxious to see the Statement amplifiers, but I do not believe that a $23k -$25k speaker will be given it's due with a $3500 amp. Maybe 2 in mono???

Last edited by Randy Myers; 03-30-2016 at 08:29 AM.
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