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  #11  
Old 06-02-2016, 05:39 AM
musicjunkie musicjunkie is offline
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Originally Posted by joey_v View Post
So, what are you guys using with your D3? Macs? Classe? Other?

I just did a shoot out between Classe and Mac.
I have the D3's since 4 months and I am very happy with them (2x 802 D3, HTM1 D3, 2x 805 D3).
They are driven by Arcam AV950 + Arcam P777, the 802 are bi-amped with
Tellurium Q Ultra Black cables.
Stereo and surround sound absolutly perfect to my ears.
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:35 PM
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Samac Samac is offline
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Wow, sweet set-up, musicjunkie! I bet it sounds fantastic! I love Arcam with B&W. I have the A19 paired with a set of 683S2s and enjoy it very much.

Cheers,

Scott
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2016, 09:26 PM
playdrv4me playdrv4me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey_v View Post
Here is a snippet:

This will be just a quick review, but I wanted to log my thoughts so atleast I could reference to this some time later when my memory becomes foggy.

I went to my dealer and brought my Classe M600 monoblocks to compare to the Mcintosh 601 monoblocks. I thought it was a fair comparison on a system that I was pretty familiar with.

We ran the Mcintosh 550 CD Player into the MC52 preamp into each of the monoblocks and then into the BW 802D3. We used Audioquest NRG4 power cables, AQ IC (I forget which), and AQ Oak speaker wires.

There were 3 of us there, so we took turns listening and listened to a variety of music.

Introduction:
The Classe M600 and the Mcintosh are well matched. Both operate at 600w into 8ohm, the Macs function with autoformers so it is a stagnant 600w into any load, there are variable taps in the back of the amp where you plug in the speaker wires depending on the nominal impedance of the speaker you are wanting to drive. The Classe M600 are your typical amplifier with increasing power output as the impedance drops... 600w into 8, 1200w into 4, etc.

Build:
Both are built extremely well. To put a Rotel or Parasound next to either just amplifies (no pun intended) the difference in the build and casing of the top shelf amps against the lower hi-fi amps. To rap your knuckle against the casing of either the Mac or Classe, you can tell that some thought has gone into the design and the overall feel of these top shelf amps.

Listening:
Honestly I did not know which would sound better, so we just went ahead and plugged either one and started listening. We took turns and ran through some CDs, we'd usually listen to the whole track because both sounded so good.

Sound:
The overall consensus was this -

Classe M600
- More dynamic
- Better bass
- Sharper edges of detail
- Slightly live-lier sound than the Mac.
- Imaging of the voice was not as good.
- Staging of the vocalist was surprisingly not as forward.

Mcintosh 601
- Not as dynamic, slight slurring of transients, especially heard with the presence of high hats, etc.
- Bass was not as present, but warmer overall feel
- Detail was there, but you can tell, it was rounder. Images especially gave a sense that it was more "analog" for lack of a better term.
- The sound was less "live" relative to the Classe. If you were to compare, it was like a small jazz club at a nice venue, whereas the Classe was like a party happening.
- Smoother edges of imaging.
- Staging of mid-stage/middle vocalist was presented in a more forward position than on the Classe.
- Imaging was very good

Conclusion:
I was very surprised to hear that the Mcintosh 601 presented the vocalist in a very forward manner, with the voice image at the appropriate height, and with good amount of air around the instruments. I thought the warmer presentation of the Mac was a welcome change for the lively 802D3 speakers, so I thought that the roundness of the imaging, the roundness of the sound, and the more blunted edges of detail was a good match for the diamond-based D3 unit.

I was just taken a-back by the forward staging, it was not something I expected. You would expect a warmer amp or warmer component to present the stage slightly behind the speaker plane, but not the Mcintosh 601. We all agreed, the forward staging combined with the warmer sound but still filled with detail was a very good combo.

In the end, it was a split.

1 of us liked the Classe on the D3.
2 of us liked the Mac on the D3.

Overall, it was a good experience, it's not every day you get to hear 2 juggernauts in the same room, in the same system, under similar circumstances.

Now I have a good idea of what's what.
I love your very detailed and PROPERLY executed review but...

One is made in China. One is not.

That ends the discussion for me.

edit: Sidebar. If you're going to go down to the monoblock road, the McIntosh MC601s are about the best bang for the buck there is for anything *not* made in China at their power and performance level.

Last edited by playdrv4me; 06-02-2016 at 09:28 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2016, 02:46 AM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playdrv4me View Post
I love your very detailed and PROPERLY executed review but...

One is made in China. One is not.

That ends the discussion for me.

edit: Sidebar. If you're going to go down to the monoblock road, the McIntosh MC601s are about the best bang for the buck there is for anything *not* made in China at their power and performance level.
I still love my Classe.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2016, 10:33 AM
Rod#S Rod#S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playdrv4me View Post
That ends the discussion for me.
What's being made in China have to do with anything?
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:16 PM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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After visiting Classé in Montreal in April, I came to realize something about modern high-tech manufacturing. All the real work is in the research and development, and that's what the design team in Montreal does. Thousands of hours go into each new product, and the design team consists of engineers and technicians Canada, the United States, Asia and Europe. A global design team if you will. As Classé assembles everything in their own facility in Zhuhai, the only thing North American assembly would add is additional cost.

Best Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
What's being made in China have to do with anything?
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2016, 04:41 PM
Allman779 Allman779 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
After visiting Classé in Montreal in April, I came to realize something about modern high-tech manufacturing. All the real work is in the research and development, and that's what the design team in Montreal does. Thousands of hours go into each new product, and the design team consists of engineers and technicians Canada, the United States, Asia and Europe. A global design team if you will. As Classé assembles everything in their own facility in Zhuhai, the only thing North American assembly would add is additional cost.

Best Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


Off topic, how'bout a little tease about the new Classe Delta range and when it will be released...
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2016, 07:33 AM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi Allman77,

2017. That's the limit of my prognostication.

Regards,

Patrick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman77 View Post


Off topic, how'bout a little tease about the new Classe Delta range and when it will be released...
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:44 PM
playdrv4me playdrv4me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
What's being made in China have to do with anything?
It has nothing to do with anything if I'm buying an iPad, but it matters to me. These aren't commodity off the shelf boomboxes. If you're paying luxury dollars for luxury products... the SAME luxury dollars you paid before if not more, for the company to build products in a facility that costs *THEM* less money but those savings aren't passed on to YOU. What the hell is the point? I have made this exact same argument over on the Bang and Olufsen forums where it's even MORE egregious. Those are sold as not just audio, but luxury lifestyle products from the word GO.

When I'm paying a premium for a product I don't personally care about saving the producing company money in production. For that matter I can just buy cheaper gear. Part of what I'm paying for is the higher cost of production and providing an economy for the skilled craftspeople and assembly workers in the home countries of those companies. If I pay you more for your luxury product, part of that luxury comes from knowing my product isn't being made alongside everyone else's commodity product.

That's not to say that I have a problem with LOWER end lines being produced in China. B&O's play line, B&W's iPod speaker things up to the CM Series, the Classe Delta line for example. Just not the primary lines. It's easy to articulate all day long that as long as the R&D is happening stateside or Canada or Denmark or whatever that the end product "will be just fine". But that's not what I'm paying you extra for. This was reinforced to me when I was selling my Classe CP-800 a while back and got numerous people who asked me "Is it the made in china or made in canada version?". Once I said China they'd just evaporate.

The simplest example of this is Rolex. If Rolex began producing watches in China today. Their business would crumble within months and anyone who says any different, regardless if the watch was "just as good as it was before" is smoking crack. I consider Classe and McIntosh similarly premium products. If I want Chinese made I'll just buy Emotiva and save *literally* thousands.

Fortunately, McIntosh so far have avoided this error.

Last edited by playdrv4me; 06-07-2016 at 01:01 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-09-2016, 08:03 PM
TM1 TM1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicjunkie View Post
I have the D3's since 4 months and I am very happy with them (2x 802 D3, HTM1 D3, 2x 805 D3). They are driven by Arcam AV950 + Arcam P777, the 802 are bi-amped with Tellurium Q Ultra Black cables. Stereo and surround sound absolutly perfect to my ears.
Hey musicjunkie,

What did you have as a center before the htm1d3?

Tony
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