Q3 vs S5

[audiot servant]

Originally Posted by TOGA

Hi,

I had Q3 and tried them with various serious amps. They never lack of deep bass. Bass was solid and deep.
Only infrasonic at high volume playback that made all tiny woofers hit movement limit.
About the tightness in overall sound. I agree on this, they were so tight and too tight. Until, after a year of use
With 1000 hours on them playing hard, with the correct cables, plugs, power conditioners, I don t find that to
Be the case any more. Also by using Harmonix spike cups like RF900 Mk II make Q3 sound sweeter.
Yes I heard S5 driven hard by DartZeel , They do play louder. But the Transparency of Q3 after treated by
First rate of associate components was very addicting. I had Revel Salon2 and Wilson Sophia3 in the same room
For comparison, but I just don t wanna listen to them as much as I used to before I get Q3.
It s Ok if somebody prefer S5, but I don't agree that Q3 do not sound musical. Treat them well and they can sound
In anyway you like them to be, a single fuse changed in a system can make a big change in Q3 presentation.
One will never judge Magico sound in unknown system, one must take times with them to know them well enough.
We will be able to make Q3 as relax and sweet with some tuning, but we will never make S5 as transparent.
At any sane high playback level with sane music, I never make Q3 stressed. Only rumble in movie or cannon in 1812
At high playback that I heard three woofers cried.
They became too tight , grip too hard, but with incredible resolution when I replace RSA Maxim power conditioner with
Accuphase PS1220. Returned to Maxim made sound much more relaxed, but less energy and impact.
Normally I listen to music from 21:00 - 03:00 or six hours straight, the later at night I tend to play louder as everybody go to
Their bedrooms far away. No fatigue at all.

Toga

Toga,

I always enjoy your posts as you usually manage to get to the core when you analyse gear... What a great post, you always manage to be thorough, fair and well reasoned.

Also agree, so often guys seem to have a quick listen to something in an unfamiliar set-up and want to make big calls about the ultimate quality of the gear they have only just heard briefly.

Quick impressions tell us quite a bit about the basic nature of gear but rarely gives the complete picture... resolving gear is often harder to get right but ultimately as you say can be more capable and more importantly more rewarding when you can get the best out of it.

and yes, not everyone has your capacity to fine tune so it is good that there is also gear with slightly softer suspensions to provide good rides for everyone, I'm not sure if that is what Magico intended with the S series but reading between the lines it does point to some great potential in the Q7 if you can get to the top of that one so look forward to how that works out for you as well.

You are obviously someone who loves getting the best out of things, have a great set-up , understands system building and you are never in the least smug or immodest about it. You are a great asset to the forum. just wanted to say thanks, I always reckon we can learn a lot from your posts.

Graham

[TOGA]

Dear Graham,

Too much praise for me, really. Thanks for your kind words.
You are so exactly right about every words you wrote as well.
Higher resolving speakers will be more rewarding when treated right.
More relaxed one are easier to live with and easier to enjoy, yes that s what S5 will do besides
Extra output from larger woofers. So yes I believe S5 will be great to larger group of audience.
But even the more relaxed ones like S5, don t treat them bad. I sold Sophia 3 to a close friend of mine
Who is not audiophile, but music lover. I did the installation and I was shocked. They sounded so bad.
Because cables were zip cord, with cheap ac extension cords,90$ BD player as source using analog output,
Only his Bel Canto amp seems capable here.
One important small things that will push Q series to the limits is all little accessories like wall sockets and
AC plugs, bass become more or less controlled or even loosed with only a change of AC cord plugs and IEC side.
Ok I will tell you just a small parts of how tune-able Q3 were that I have tried and done, and those who live in
Europe or Australia may never have chance to do due to different type of electrical plugs used.
With Q3, replacing plugs and IEC in Transparent PLMM2x AC cord that feed power amp from standard hubbell/wattgate to Wattgate gold-plated 330i/350i will make all falling for the new truly beautiful golden glow sound. Treble so sweet and extended like never heard before, midrange so highly tubelike liquid. Bass was softer and totally uncontrolled. So now
Q3 were becoming loose in uncontrolled in the bass and heaven sent in other areas. What happen if we do this little mod
To a softer speakers in the first place? I don't know. Normally any gold plated plugs/socket will make such a sound, while rhodium plated will make bass tighter and more airy treble and cooler overall tone, also more resolution. Too bad they don t
Offer as many choices in Shuko/australian types.
Will showrooms in Europe have these kind of sockets installed instead of brass based contractor grade sockets? I doubt it. Furutech GTX pure copper sockets? Forget about it. Non-plated Brass make strong and very controlled bass, but totally unrefined, harsh treble, do not blame highly resolving metal tweeters yet, until you get rid of all contractor grade wall sockets in the chain. Ditto the hotel rooms in all famous shows in this regard.
But I strongly believe that these little things will have great benefit to S5 as well, so I encourage user to do, by more relax doesn't mean they are not highly resolving, just not as ultimately resolving as Q, that s all.
If S5 were in the market while I was buying Q3, very likely that I chose S5 as well, with high gloss color, but the final sound of Dull black Q3 was so addicting once I owned them and tuned them right.

Toga
PS . Confess they are two popular tweaks that never work for my ears even with Q3. I really cannot hear any change
By turning of displays on my CDP or preamp. Also using special feet under ARC preamp too. So my ears have limitation as well.

[CLEE]

Originally Posted by raidho

Hallo Charles,

sorry what for ampli you use to drive your Q3?

You dont find that the good contolled Q3 is not "too much" controlled?

You have write: "The Q3 has slightly better resolution and possibly transparency" --> yes is true but you ont think tha at long time can be a "limitation" for the pleasure of listing session?

Dont will be a "static-analitic" sound?
of course if you can have a sub connected, integrated SW at 100% can be a good plus for th Q3...but a so expensiv speaker need a extra SW to say is very amazing?....in a 2 channel system a sub is not agreed (imho)!!

With the S1 I can understand....are a "great monitor speaker and the LF are not the edge of diamont of this speaker well a SW is agreed bu not with a Q3...

What do you means?

thks Style

Hi Raidho, I eventually chose the S5 for its more relaxed presentation. I felt and I still believe that the Q3 may have more potentials as it sound slightly more "accurate". From an enjoyment point of view, the S5 won that day at the dealer's. However that was a brief session and the set-up and environment might not have been optimized.

I drive the S5 with the ASR Emitter II amp with good result. I plan to audition the Constellation Centaur later.

I agree that the S5 and the Q3 don't need SW in most rooms. As I said it would be quite challeneging as these speakers maintain very good transients and definition at LF region.

[CLEE]

Originally Posted by TOGA

Dear Graham,

Too much praise for me, really. Thanks for your kind words.
You are so exactly right about every words you wrote as well.
Higher resolving speakers will be more rewarding when treated right.
More relaxed one are easier to live with and easier to enjoy, yes that s what S5 will do besides
Extra output from larger woofers. So yes I believe S5 will be great to larger group of audience.
But even the more relaxed ones like S5, don t treat them bad. I sold Sophia 3 to a close friend of mine
Who is not audiophile, but music lover. I did the installation and I was shocked. They sounded so bad.
Because cables were zip cord, with cheap ac extension cords,90$ BD player as source using analog output,
Only his Bel Canto amp seems capable here.
One important small things that will push Q series to the limits is all little accessories like wall sockets and
AC plugs, bass become more or less controlled or even loosed with only a change of AC cord plugs and IEC side.
Ok I will tell you just a small parts of how tune-able Q3 were that I have tried and done, and those who live in
Europe or Australia may never have chance to do due to different type of electrical plugs used.
With Q3, replacing plugs and IEC in Transparent PLMM2x AC cord that feed power amp from standard hubbell/wattgate to Wattgate gold-plated 330i/350i will make all falling for the new truly beautiful golden glow sound. Treble so sweet and extended like never heard before, midrange so highly tubelike liquid. Bass was softer and totally uncontrolled. So now
Q3 were becoming loose in uncontrolled in the bass and heaven sent in other areas. What happen if we do this little mod
To a softer speakers in the first place? I don't know. Normally any gold plated plugs/socket will make such a sound, while rhodium plated will make bass tighter and more airy treble and cooler overall tone, also more resolution. Too bad they don t
Offer as many choices in Shuko/australian types.
Will showrooms in Europe have these kind of sockets installed instead of brass based contractor grade sockets? I doubt it. Furutech GTX pure copper sockets? Forget about it. Non-plated Brass make strong and very controlled bass, but totally unrefined, harsh treble, do not blame highly resolving metal tweeters yet, until you get rid of all contractor grade wall sockets in the chain. Ditto the hotel rooms in all famous shows in this regard.
But I strongly believe that these little things will have great benefit to S5 as well, so I encourage user to do, by more relax doesn't mean they are not highly resolving, just not as ultimately resolving as Q, that s all.
If S5 were in the market while I was buying Q3, very likely that I chose S5 as well, with high gloss color, but the final sound of Dull black Q3 was so addicting once I owned them and tuned them right.

Toga
PS . Confess they are two popular tweaks that never work for my ears even with Q3. I really cannot hear any change
By turning of displays on my CDP or preamp. Also using special feet under ARC preamp too. So my ears have limitation as well.

Hi Toga,

Good post. I learn something useful. It make me rethink that Q3 can be a candidate for upgrade from S5 afterall.

--Charles

[TOGA]

Charles,

If you chose S5, I really do happy for you and no need for upgrade Q3 in the near future.
Just push your S5 to the limit and you will have a wonderful sound.
Don't let any weakest link left in the signal chain. Yep, 5$ wall sockets are weak link
In $xx,xxx system. Pls observe wall sockets shown in the other post " S5 Demo", those
Are likely to be brass, contractor grade sockets feeding Burmester amp and other electronics.
And they sure make big impact in overall result.. I am sorry to the shop if they are happen to be
White Oyaide R1 or Furutech FT D20.
Toga.

[raidho]

Hi guys,

Magico have do speakers very great....a very competition vs. Wilson....(in sound performance.)


the S5 for me are the best choice. Here I go pay fast the half price from what is the Q3 priced....but price a part the S5 are very good. If you go use a amazing ampli like the Constellation Centaur (mono but stereo version is more as enough.)

In a good 2 channel system = dedicat line, distribution center (and not a psaudio or Isotek power center.... well in switzerland we have a very good electricity at 230v and IS 230v always.....in Usa is not so good with all respect! -> in almost Europe we dont need ps audiio units or others ...)

good cables = not the super Top from I dont know for what brand but not a powr cord used from a computer...), itnerconnect & speakers cables... =
you go have a great system with a fabulos sound!

CLEE: the emitter exclusi II is a very very good ampli/premapl and with 250watt pre channel can drive all with a very fine sound.

I will go buy the Oyade cables too: they work very good.

Use a SW for me give at the 80% more noise vs. sound improvement!!! and the Wilson (sophia3, Sasha & Alexia) like the S5 and Q3 DONT need a Sw.


A system with a Centaur stereo with a Virgo pre, S5 speaeker is sure amazing!!!
why pay 50k euro for a Q3 if you can have a S5 for 30k euro that give you more pleasure?
of course is a personal taste but all my dealer friend say me the same: go with te S5....

Personaly I had the B&W802di sold and mow for the second time new purchased: I call direct the B&W and I go have a great price for a speakers that is sure not a S5 but sound very good. I will stay with this speaker.

I go sell my RaidHo C 3.1 : yes and I go see for a S1 as second speaker in my main system. (sell the new 802di - 1month joung - make no sense) = or a S1 or lose a lot of $$$ with sel the 802di + Rahdho for a S5.....

Style

[CLEE]

Originally Posted by raidho

Hi guys,

.......
CLEE: the emitter exclusi II is a very very good ampli/premapl and with 250watt pre channel can drive all with a very fine sound.

I will go buy the Oyade cables too: they work very good.

Use a SW for me give at the 80% more noise vs. sound improvement!!! and the Wilson (sophia3, Sasha & Alexia) like the S5 and Q3 DONT need a Sw.


A system with a Centaur stereo with a Virgo pre, S5 speaeker is sure amazing!!!
why pay 50k euro for a Q3 if you can have a S5 for 30k euro that give you more pleasure?
of course is a personal taste but all my dealer friend say me the same: go with te S5....


Style

Yes, the ASR E2 Exclusive is a great amp. I read Constellation amps have good synergy with Magico speakers. Hence my desire to audition an S5+ Centaur combo. I am in no hurry as I have only ~200 hours on my S5. I don't think it is fully broken in yet.

I did'nt realize that the Q3 is so expensive in Switzerland. Here in Hong Kong, the differential was less.

[TOGA]

200 hours, not even close. Play harder, play longer. Let s say 1000 hours.

Yes what q3 cost in Europe make me thinking of 5.1 system using S5 all around..

[CLEE]

1000 hours!! It may take me 2 years!😥 May need to play the Shostakovich's at high level more often!

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by raidho

why pay 50k euro for a Q3 if you can have a S5 for 30k euro that give you more pleasure?

Q3s cost 50k euro in Switzerland ???