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Shunyata Research Designing Silent Systems for recording, film and music

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  #11  
Old 08-21-2020, 04:32 AM
The Attorney The Attorney is offline
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Originally Posted by John49 View Post
Are the fuses in these mains plugs anything special or just the same as used in generic types? Is there any benefit to fitting SR Orange or similar?
I was told by my UK Dealer that the AMR Gold fuse in my Alpha NR V1 plug was further treated by Shunyata (KPIP maybe). His view was that I don't need to worry about fuse rolling.

Well, I didn't worry for a while, but then I tried a temporary bypass test with a copper rod of same diameter (el cheapo from ebay). The difference was considerable - at least as great as changing to the Alpha in the first place (from an elderly Audience cord of around £600).

There was a slight downside in that considerable extra clarity and dynamics came with a slight increase in brightness. So 3 steps forward and 1 step back. That brightness was later fixed by a soldered silver wire to replace the copper rod (note that even more caution is required with soldering - and it will leave a mark on the fuse holder if you ever reverse this tweak).

The obvious "don't try this at home" warning is the safety risk. So an SR Orange (my favourite) is a safer, but more expensive, bet. So don't try the bypass unless you really understand the risks. But I maintain that a 13A fuse in the UK mains plug is completely redundant as long as you have the correctly spec'd fuse inside your component and the appropriate RCD protection at the Consumer Unit ("fuse box"). Most source components have a low fuse rating, often less than 3A, so a 13A fuse in the mains plug is useless in such circumstances.

The bottom line of my 1 test in 1 circumstance is that the current fuse in the Shunyata UK mains plug is severely holding back the potential of their power cords. YMMV.

My related question: Is there any difference to the NR V1 and V2 UK plugs? The US V1/V2 plugs look very different, but I can't tell with the UK ones.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2020, 09:39 AM
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CGabriel CGabriel is offline
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The Shunyata Research fuse is not severely holding anything back. All UK plugs require a fuse to keep from burning your houses down. Shorting out the fuse would be equivalent, in the US, to pulling a breaker out of th electrical panel and jumpering it it with a copper rod. Just plain stupid.

As to what fuse the customer wants to use, that is completely up to them. And whether you want to fuse roll or just replace a blown fuse - at least with our plug it is easy to replace. Instead of having to tear the cable apart to do it.
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2020, 06:23 AM
The Attorney The Attorney is offline
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Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
Shorting out the fuse would be equivalent, in the US, to pulling a breaker out of th electrical panel and jumpering it it with a copper rod. Just plain stupid.
You appear to have completely missed my point - it is nothing like the US equivalent you quoted. I could spell it out in more detail, but I suspect that would go down a negative path if people aren't receptive.

I did wonder when posting if this would open up Pandora's box and it's in danger of doing so, which was not my intention. So I'll just close by saying that I was giving an honest answer to the OP's question and I stand by every word.
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2020, 08:29 AM
AudioGremlin AudioGremlin is offline
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The fuse in the UK mains plug merely protects the power cord between the equipment fuse and the mains plug.

Without such a fuse, i.e. back in the UK era of round pin plugs when there wasn't a ring main and the cable went directly back to the consumer unit. That cable had to be of sufficient current carrying capacity for the consumer unit fuse to blow safely.

The UK fused plugs do essentially increase safety but you could argue that as long as the installed cables have a good margin of current carrying capacity whereby the consumer unit RCD trips without any other issues you're good to go.
Of course thats a controversial viewpoint!
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2020, 11:31 AM
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We could argue the relative sonic differences of different fuses and even whether any fuse is needed. As a consumer and home owner you are free to do as you wish. However the legality of it is quite another matter. So, as Attorney says, it is a can of worms that need not be opened. Follow your local electrical code is the best advice.
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  #16  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
AMR Gold


I have some of these in my current power cables.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:12 AM
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Default Fuses in Shunyata UK NR/XC power cable mains plugs

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Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
You would be correct. Shunyata thinks everything through, down to the smallest detail.

Some examples as a "case in point": 1) every power distributor comes with a little plastic ziplock bag that contains white plastic shims that allow the end-user to shim the Shunyata footers (which, BTW, are a bespoke vibration-damping polymer made to Shunyata's specifications) so that if the shelf, rack, or board the PD is resting on is not perfectly level under a footer, you can shim it with the shims so that the PD is firmly mechanically-grounded to the surface it is resting on. 2) Even the stick-on feet that go on the bottom of the DFSS cable suspension system units are made of this vibration-damping material, not just some "generic" polymer or rubber. 3) the type, placement, and amount of damping material placed on the inside of the chassis covers for Shunyata PDs has been optimized. If you tap on top of a Denali V2, for example, you'd hear a dull thud, compared to say, the top cover of my CJ CT-5 preamp. No ringing. 4) The carbon-fiber "headshells" for the plugs for Omega, Sigma and Alpha PCs are genuine carbon-fiber, and not just a pretty face; the carbon fiber also provides vibration damping for the power cord plug and components (e.g. the NR filter components) inside. Oh, and now that I think about it, the AC receptacles on the power distributor that connects PCs to the PD itself and the components are also vibration-damped. Forgot about that for a moment. Effective mechanical grounding and vibration damping are really important to realize maximal performance.

So, with NR V2s, you do not need to worry about...performance.

You'll find out; you're going to be very happy.

Which NR PCs did you order, BTW?


Alpha and Delta. Alpha into PS Audio P10, Delta out to all equipment apart from Alpha out to Simaudio Moon 700i
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Last edited by John49; 08-23-2020 at 04:15 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-23-2020, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John49 View Post
Alpha and Delta. Alpha into PS Audio P10, Delta out to all equipment apart from Alpha out to Simaudio Moon 700i
Nice.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2020, 10:04 AM
GuillaumeB GuillaumeB is offline
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Originally Posted by The Attorney View Post
Most source components have a low fuse rating, often less than 3A, so a 13A fuse in the mains plug is useless in such circumstances.
This is a very common misconception: the fuse in the mains plug is not there to protect the appliance it is powering, it is there to protect the cable. It is based on the premise that in the UK most power cords will be connected to a 32A ring mains (ring circuit). This means that you could draw 32A from a socket without tripping the breaker at the consumer unit.

On this basis I would always recommend that you work with your electrician if wishing to use fuseless power cables such as Schuko and NEMA ones. I certainly wouldn't recommend modifying a UK power cable to bypass the fuse since it invalidates the cable warranty and reduces options in terms of resale/trade in values further down the line. In some ways using an expensive Orange fuse might prove to be the cheaper option.

In my own home setup I have a dedicated consumer unit connected directly to the Henley block (junction box that splits tails from the meter). This feeds 8 radial circuits, of which 3 are terminated with Furutech NEMA Furutech GTX-D sockets and the others are unswitched standard MK double sockets. The in-wall cable used is standard 6mm T&E. Getting my electrician to sign everything off was challenging; in the end I had to compromise with 10A circuits with RCBO (type B) for the US sockets and 20A circuits with regular RCD breakers for the UK circuits. All of this work was certified by the electrician and I received the relevant NICEIC certification.

As a result of having both systems I have been able to experiment widely with both UK and US power cables and in my humble opinion the differences between UK and US Shunyata variants are modest. I used to use almost exclusively US cables but have pretty much migrated to UK cables now. Having dedicated 20A radials for the UK circuits certainly helps to close the gap.

Cheers,

Guillaume
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuillaumeB View Post
This is a very common misconception: the fuse in the mains plug is not there to protect the appliance it is powering, it is there to protect the cable. It is based on the premise that in the UK most power cords will be connected to a 32A ring mains (ring circuit). This means that you could draw 32A from a socket without tripping the breaker at the consumer unit.

On this basis I would always recommend that you work with your electrician if wishing to use fuseless power cables such as Schuko and NEMA ones. I certainly wouldn't recommend modifying a UK power cable to bypass the fuse since it invalidates the cable warranty and reduces options in terms of resale/trade in values further down the line. In some ways using an expensive Orange fuse might prove to be the cheaper option.

In my own home setup I have a dedicated consumer unit connected directly to the Henley block (junction box that splits tails from the meter). This feeds 8 radial circuits, of which 3 are terminated with Furutech NEMA Furutech GTX-D sockets and the others are unswitched standard MK double sockets. The in-wall cable used is standard 6mm T&E. Getting my electrician to sign everything off was challenging; in the end I had to compromise with 10A circuits with RCBO (type B) for the US sockets and 20A circuits with regular RCD breakers for the UK circuits. All of this work was certified by the electrician and I received the relevant NICEIC certification.

As a result of having both systems I have been able to experiment widely with both UK and US power cables and in my humble opinion the differences between UK and US Shunyata variants are modest. I used to use almost exclusively US cables but have pretty much migrated to UK cables now. Having dedicated 20A radials for the UK circuits certainly helps to close the gap.

Cheers,

Guillaume
Wow, very helpful post and information, G. Thanks so much.
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Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
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