Accuphase DG-68 in bound

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by SAM992

yes, sorry... I'm emailing with John Quick as well as trying to process what you're saying.. I am going to try to diagram this on paper so I can wrap my mind around it, and find the weak points for the different ways to go about it.

Starting to wonder if the best option isn't going to be to just insert the DG68 between the amp and pre-amp as Ivan originally suggested?

That is a rather easy, simple and foolproof method. The majority of folks go that route.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

That is a rather easy, simple and foolproof method. The majority of folks go that route.

In a mixed Accuphase / dCS system (besides some other limitations like missing necessary inputs or outputs) it ends up determining which DAC sounds better, DG-68 or dCS.

Personally I prefer to keep signals in the digital domain as long as possible and convert them to analog only once (using dCS 974 Upsampler and Vivaldi DAC).

Since your DG-68 has arrived, I have one question:
Can you manually select HS-Link Ver.1 regardless of the transport, and is the unit then downsampling to 176.4kHz and hence this signal available via coax outputs?

Martin

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by SAM992

Starting to wonder if the best option isn't going to be to just insert the DG68 between the amp and pre-amp as Ivan originally suggested?

The simplest one. All sources can be selected by the preamp and the volume can be adjusted there as well.

IMHO not the best.
1) The ADC of the DG-68 has to convert relatively low level analog signals (though you can select some higher input sensitivity). But you should feed an ADC the highest possible analog level otherwise you loose sound quality.
2) All your sources would eventually be converted by the DG-68, so your Rossini DAC function would become obsolete. The only function kept would be the Upsampling. If you would renounce to the Upsampling of CD and streams you could replace the Rossini by a Network Bridge.

Martin

[SAM992]

Originally Posted by meltemi

The simplest one. All sources can be selected by the preamp and the volume can be adjusted there as well.

IMHO not the best.
1) The ADC of the DG-68 has to convert relatively low level analog signals (though you can select some higher input sensitivity). But you should feed an ADC the highest possible analog level otherwise you loose sound quality.
2) All your sources would eventually be converted by the DG-68, so your Rossini DAC function would become obsolete. The only function kept would be the Upsampling. If you would renounce to the Upsampling of CD and streams you could replace the Rossini by a Network Bridge.

Martin

ok, if I understood John Quicks last email correctly... why not try this setup? I diagramed it as for me (my mind) it's easier to keep it all straight in my head..

In a nutshell, the gist of what I got from him is The Analog connection from the Rossini to the DG covers ALL streaming ..

I have SPDIF to cover CD play back via the DCS..

Thoughts? (click on the pic, as I don't know how to make pics appear large on here).

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by SAM992

ok, if I understood John Quicks last email correctly... why not try this setup? I diagramed it as for me (my mind) it's easier to keep it all straight in my head..

Excellent idea to make a diagram. (I would be lost in my system without having made diagrams.)

Originally Posted by SAM992

In a nutshell, the gist of what I got from him is The Analog connection from the Rossini to the DG covers ALL streaming ..

Absolutely correct. Though finally the DG-68 DAC does the conversion to analog.

Originally Posted by SAM992

I have SPDIF to cover CD play back via the DCS..

Absolutely correct. But for this you need an analog connection from the Rossini to the C1100 as well. See below.

Originally Posted by SAM992

Thoughts? (click on the pic, as I don't know how to make pics appear large on here).

Almost there. My suggestion was (see earlier posts) and still is:

1) HS-Link from DP-560 to DG-68 (same as in your diagram).
2) 75Ω coax from DG-68 to Rossini (same as in your diagram)
3) RCA pair from Rossini to DG-68, not XLR (to be changed in your diagram) or XLR pair from Rossini to DG-68 (same as in your drawing), whichever sounds better
4) XLR pair from Rossini to C1100 first input (to be added in your drawing) or RCA pair from Rossini to C1100 first input (to be added in your drawing), whichever sounds better
5) XLR pair from DG-68 to C1100 second input (same as in your drawing)
6) XLR pair from C1100 to MC462 (same as in your drawing)

You need to use both analog outputs of the Rossini in order to be able to use the Rossini as an Upsampler / DAC for CD.
I do not expect any ground loops with this wiring.

Martin

BTW, I know signal routing is not easy. So just for fun I'll show you how I currently stream free Spotify:

1) Trinnov ST-2 Pro (room correction): Spotify via WLAN - Laptop - USB - Mutec MC3+USB (signal reclocked) - AES/EBU - Accuphase DC-901 (digital input switching) - 75Ω coax - ZSys z.8.8 (digital 8x8 switching matrix) - AES/EBU - Trinnov ST-2 Pro (room correction) - AES/EBU - ZSys z.8.8 (digital 8x8 switching matrix) - AES/EBU - dCS 974 (upsampling to DSD) - SDIF-2 (left, right channel and wordclock with 3x 75Ω coax) - dCS Vivaldi DAC - XLR analog - Accuphase C-3850 - XLR analog - Accuphase A-250 - B&W 800 D3.

2) DG-58 (room correction): Spotify via WLAN - Laptop - USB - Mutec MC3+USB (signal reclocked) - AES/EBU - Accuphase DC-901 (digital input switching) - HS-Link Ver.1 - DG-58 - 75Ω coax - ZSys z.8.8 (digital 8x8 switching matrix) - AES/EBU - dCS 974 (upsampling to DSD) - SDIF-2 (left, right channel and wordclock with 3x 75Ω coax) - dCS Vivaldi DAC - XLR analog - Accuphase C-3850 - XLR analog - Accuphase A-250 - B&W 800 D3.

Currently I prefer Trinnov ST-2 Pro over DG-58 room correction.

[SAM992]

@Meltemi

haha, I wish you lived down the street! This stuff can be a mind (expletive deleted) for me sometimes.. even though I have a strong technical background, I get lost in all of the proprietary issues (witness the mess SACD has introduced to this mix)..

I am going to amend my drawing to add an analogue outputs (using RCA as they will come with the DG68) and test this out when the unit arrives.

But I still am curious why the SPDIF/CD source which is going to be processed by the Rossini DAC can't be sent back thru the DG-68 which in turn sends on onward to the C1100 preamp? ... currently I am using SPDIF from the DP-560 into the Rossini, then the Rossini sends it to the C1100 via analogue XLR.. so why the need to by-pass the DG-68 completely and send the analogue directly to the preamp from the Rossini when it's going to take the entire room correction out of the loop for all CD playback? Somehow I can't wrap my mind around this logic... (and I'm sure it's right in front of me, but I'm still missing it).. Unless it's because you're concerned that the AD/DA process in the DG68 will affect the sound of the Rossini and defeat the purpose of having it in the first place?


I am also curious to try the method Ivan is going to use of putting it between he amp and pre-amp but I've had other's object to this due to differences in output voltage of the Rossini (which I can set to a fixed .2, .6 2.0 or 6.0v) and the pre-amp which is more variable I assume? Oddly though, Ivan is right, this is the method Accuphase seem to promote first.

[SAM992]

And here is the updated diagram, but as my question above states.. still unclear as to why I have to have the analogue / RCA route from the Rossini to the C1100 for SACD, and not use the pre-existing all XLR path going thru the DG68..

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by SAM992

And here is the updated diagram, but as my question above states.. still unclear as to why I have to have the analogue / RCA route from the Rossini to the C1100 for SACD, and not use the pre-existing all XLR path going thru the DG68..

Not for SACD, for CD.
With room correction connect SPDIF from DG-68 instead as from DP-560 to Rossini. Leave the other connections untouched.
For streaming connect an additional RCA analog from Rossini to DG-68.
Connect an additional XLR analog from DG-68 to C1100.

1) The DG-68 DAC is used for SACD.
2) The Rossini Upsampler and DAC is used for CD (and other two digital sources up to 192kHz connected to the DG-68).
3) The DG-68 ADC and DAC are eventually used for streaming.

Personally, I'd prefer RCA analog for the streaming signals from the Rossini to the DG-68 and XLR analog for the (CD) output of the Rossini DAC to the C1100. But you can swap the two, depending on what you think sounds better.

The signal paths are as follows:

1) SACD: DP-560 --> HS-Link --> DG-68 (input selection: HS-Link; room correction and DAC) --> analog output --> C1100
2) CD: DP-560 --> HS-Link --> DG-68 (input selection: HS-Link; room correction only)
--> 75Ω coax --> Rossini (input selection: SPDIF; does upsampling of the room corrected signal and DAC) ---> analog output XLR or RCA --> C1100
The analog output signal of the Rossini cannot be fed back to the DG-68, as its input selection is set to HS-Link. Instead connect one of the analog outputs of the Rossini to the C1100.
3) Streaming: Rossini (input selection: Network with Mosaic; streaming, upsampling and DAC, but without room correction) --> analog output RCA or XLR
--> DG-68 (input selection: Line (for RCA) or Balanced (for XLR); ADC, room correction and DAC) --> analog output (same as for SACD) --> C1100
You cannot take out a digital signal from the Rossini.

One analog output of the Rossini is fed to DG-68 for streaming, the other one is fed to the C1100 for CD.

Martin

[Masterlu]

Martin... I appreciate your dedication to share your in-depth knowledge, and I am giving you a one year complimentary AA Subscription.

[Masterlu]

Tonight, I had the time to install my DG-68. I have mine connected to my E-800 Integrated via Pre-Out/Main-In using two pairs of XLR cables; courtesy of WW.

Triple Functionality: VOICING / EQUALIZER / ANALYZER


Sound field compensation: VOICING

The Voicing function that involves measuring the acoustic characteristics of the room using a microphone and then providing compensation to achieve ideal music reproduction conditions. The user can choose between two adjustment methods for Voicing. With AUTO VOICING, the entire process is performed automatically for superior operation convenience. MANUAL VOICING gives the user full control over each item, enabling manual adjustment while checking the results.

Equalizing function: EQUALIZER

The Equalizer allows adjusting the tonal result by selectively boosting or attenuating the level of the music signal in specific frequency bands.
The DG-68 offers an amazing 80 bands covering the frequency range up to 100 kHz. By controlling the level in these bands, any desired frequency response can be created. While listening to actual music, use the stylus pen to draw a response curve. Being able to make adjustments visually while checking the audible result makes all the difference.

Spectrum analyzer function: ANALYZER

A spectrum analyzer makes it possible to display the actual frequency components of the music being played. The DG-68 divides the frequency spectrum into 35 bands, reaching up to 50 kHz. The level of each band is analyzed and shown on screen. When using the Equalizer, the Analyzer lets the user first check the spectral frequency distribution of the music, to determine where adjustments will be most effective.

Starting with the Sound field AM-68 measurement microphone, this is an entirely new model from the chassis up. No previous generation microphone will even work with the DG-68.

The New DG-68 is much more powerful, yet even more intuitive to use than the DG-58. At the touch of a button VC/EQ on the front panel, or the remote; you can enable or disable both the Voicing and Equalizer functions of the DG-68 immediately, hearing the changes that have been made/programmed.

I have two sets of Canton speakers connected to my E-800. The Canton Ref K3’s and Ref K5’s each pair selectable from the E-800’s front panel. I have already run Auto Voicing for each pair, and stored the Frequency Curves under each speakers model name using the built in digital keypad on the DG-68.

The entire process is fast, and easy using the built in warble tones to listen to your speakers, room and takes into effect every aspect of your listening environment. One simple measurement point is all that is required, talk about ease of operation. To be frank, I’m blown away with the before, and after with the very first Voicing measurement. I’ll be doing more listening, and experimenting with the Equalizer function tomorrow. Keep in mind, you can manually make any change at all with the built in stylus right on the new full color display screen.

This could easily prove to be the best investment yet, albeit not inexpensive. This allows the user to fully enjoy all the money he/she has previously invested in every other component. We frequently hear “I feel like I’m hearing my speakers for the first time” etc. Well try to imagine “Hearing your Entire system for the first time”.

Stay tuned... much more to follow, including photos of the DG-68 in action.