Furman over Panamax?

[Thebenz]

I'm in the same boat so to speak. I've got a Panamax 5100 but, I'm worried it's not sufficient for my current setup. I've been looking at APC as well, why would you pick Furman over APC? just curious.

[jameslrock]

I am thinking I will go with the Furman Elite 20 PFi since I have McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers being delivered next week and will plug these to the power unit. The amperage reserve is what I am looking for. The unit comes with both a 15 amp and 20 amp cord. I have called the electrician to bring 20 amp to the room but until then will use the existing 15 amp outlet. I would also like to hear from fellow AA's to see what they suggest for a power unit for a system with McIntosh MC601s and C2300, Esoteric K-03, Rega TT, Sonos, etc.

[Rod#S]

The Bryston BIT power units and Torus units are supposed to be really good as is Furman's Reference line.

FurmanSound.com - Home Theater Product - IT-Reference 20i

Bryston Limited: BIT20 Power Conditioner

Torus Power

[Thebenz]

Not to rob your thread here but, with the Panamax, you are getting a conditioner and surge protection right? The panamax is confusing to me because I don't think it is actually converting to cleaned 120v is it? (based on the discussion here).

[kamiraa]

Originally Posted by Thebenz

Not to rob your thread here but, with the Panamax, you are getting a conditioner and surge protection right? The panamax is confusing to me because I don't think it is actually converting to cleaned 120v is it? (based on the discussion here).

There is a little confusion in this thread.

A few of the Panamax's can regen power. The lower models DO NOT, they just provide noise isolation (like the furman reference line, more of that below). The current models that can do this are the Panamax m5400pm and m7500pro.


Both have dedicated jacks for that conversion of power (i.e. not every jack is converting power.) Obviously the high current Jacks are where you would connect your amp / receiver / sub. All jack's have their own profile for noise isolation.

So the panamax tries to combine multiple features into a single unit (voltage regulation + instant high current capacity on those two models listed). The Furman's break up their benefits into TWO units.

The Furman SPR-20i is a voltage regulator, it puts out a rock solid 120V +- a small error band, but it's current capacity isn't the highest.

The Furman IT-Reference 20i on the other plate does not regulate voltage in a conversion sense.

Ideally if you talk to Furman (in the same business is Panamax btw, same parent company) they would suggest running the Furman SPR-20i first plugged into the wall, then connected to the SRP-20i run their IT-Reference 20i. You would plug in all your high current items off the IT-Reference.

This will provide a very steady 120V power supply into the IT-Reference 20i, and that unit will provide further noise isolation, but more importantly employ their power factor design (allows instant hits of current over 60 amps for transients).

That's the nut of it. Plenty of other great companies out there.

I was running the M5300 + 5400 for a while, decided to step into an M7500pro the other day since they are discontinuing that line now, so major discounted everywhere.

The m5400 "guts" were shown earlier, here is the M7500, it's more in line with a HIGH end unit we all would expect to run (tipping the scales at ~40lbs)




I hope this helps a few! I'm looking forward to learning some things from you folks, i've been a lurker here for years, decided to finally join.

[Masterlu]

kamiraa... Welcome!

[tdelahanty]

I have a Furman, Ref 20i & 15i, Elite 15. I do not run my power amps thru any of the Furmans, sounds best straight into the wall. The SPR20i is not a regenerator. It has a multi tap inductor which is controlled by an electronic circuit board. The controller selects the correct tap to keep its voltage at 120vac.

[kamiraa]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

kamiraa... Welcome!

Thank you Ivan, i've always been a fan of your setup(s)!

I'll post pictures of my really modest setup later this week.

[kamiraa]

Originally Posted by tdelahanty

I have a Furman, Ref 20i & 15i, Elite 15. I do not run my power amps thru any of the Furmans, sounds best straight into the wall. The SPR20i is not a regenerator. It has a multi tap inductor which is controlled by an electronic circuit board. The controller selects the correct tap to keep its voltage at 120vac.

Your correct it's what is called an auto-transformer with a microcontroller behind it.

Since I don't have their schematics I can only speculate how I would typically implement this design.

Within the transformers are inductors (which resist the change of current instantly). When not enough current is available (current limiting) voltage will decay. What the auto-transformer does is fire off "stages" of constant current supplies, until it is about to overshoot, then it will shut down that stage (probably shunt it). It will keep playing this game very quickly to perform the COARSE voltage regulation, which will attempt to regulate the bus even under max current draw situations.

You can go further with this design, and have a secondary form of regulation. Remember they are also using this transformer as a method to isolate noise. When you are clean, you can implement other strategy.



But more importantly I wanted to touch on your second point. I don't know why this is. A local retail store running McIntosh monoblocks to B&W 802d, powered by a furman reference it20 mentioned the same thing to me. They said it sounded not as lively then when powered by the wall outlet.

I'd love to do some data logging and see whats really going on in that situation, but I don't have big monoblocks (yet), only a big Denon AVR-4520ci powering everything.

A lot of people in the audio world represent "feelings and perceptions". But as an electrical engineer anything with a signal should allow me to characterize to envelop this response. Then it would just involve going back to the drawing board to produce this response.

In something simple as a power conditioner vs. amp I would guess that something in the filtration is blocking current flow for these instantaneous changes. Who knows, but I'm intrigued!

[Thebenz]

Wow, excellent information. What I'm trying to figure out is if I should buy surge protection. I have a Panamax 5100. Should I run that to the outlet and buy a surge protection type unit off of the panamax? (Like your Furman example?)

Chris