My Ref Phono 2 is now (or soon to be) outdated...

[Puma Cat]

Valin tends to do that. He also makes overly broad characterizations I find at times.

[enatai252]

I listened to the Ref Phono 2 extensively at my dealer in a ref 5/ref 150/Sasha/LP12 SE system and was amazed. The SE version I have has not disappointed but I would characterize differences as subtleties not step function changes. Much like the Ref250s which I added when I moved the Ref 150 to the cabin. Much of the difference is at the extremes along with added resolution and air around each performer within the soundstage. But both units produce magic especially with female vocals (listening to Adele now) If the upgrade cost is reasonable (I would expect it to be higher than the retail difference) I recommend it...but I would not feel bad if I was forced to spend the rest of my days listening to the non-SE version...it's that good.

My home system is very close to system that I demoed at dealer. Still anxious to hear Ref 5 SE. Dealer called today to say its on the way...but after Xmas.

[Etunes]

Do you think there is going to be an upgrade path for the REF5SE?

[enatai252]

Yes...I think so...but just my opinion

[TommyC]

I don't like manufacturers that slap on a SE/Signature/MKII/etc every 2 to 3 years. But, that's how they make money.

Edit: On the bright side, the Ref Phono 2 is upgradable!

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by Etunes

Do you think there is going to be an upgrade path for the REF5SE?

Yes, it's going to be called the Reference 5 SE Platinum...

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Yes, it's going to be called the Reference 5 SE Platinum...

and buyers will be the Gold Fools !
At least, we can upgrade and that is cool.
improving products every 2 or 3 years is also a sign of a dynamic company.
I wish that Mc could have improved their stock tubes over the years !

Hey Stephen : you just reached 2k ! Congrats buddy !

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

At least, we can upgrade and that is cool.
improving products every 2 or 3 years is also a sign of a dynamic company.

Having an upgrade path is a good thing, but I wonder if it is really the sign of a dynamic company? Perhaps. Not sure it is as good an indication of what a dynamic company is as the ability for true innovation.

I think the BDP-1 was quite an innovation for Bryston. That type of product didn't really exist before. Also the single-mission Asynch USB Music Streamers from HRT were very innovative along with the Oppo BD-83SE and 95 everything-players (and superb at it!). Also a lot of the stuff Peachtree's done over the last three years has been quite innovative; they're reaching customers the über high-end could only hope to reach. Crankin' out one upgrade after another? Not so much; those are line enhancements, but not what I would consider innovation.

I liked the definition of innovation from one of the portfoliio managers where I work: "The generation of an revenue stream that did not exist before." Apple is amazing at this.

I am kinda in agreement that constant upgrades are a way to continue to generate revenue...it reminds me of the constant Photoshop upgrades. At some point you reach a pretty substantial diminishing level of return for dollar invested, though. I guess I'm waxing a bit academic here with my business analytics hat on!

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Hey Stephen : you just reached 2k ! Congrats buddy !

Oh, thanks!

[Dafos]

Upgrades, updates, product revisions, these are just some of the ways audio companies remain relevant. The ref phono and the ref 5 were introduced sometime 2009 and if it were not for the "SE" upgrade, would there even be a fuss about these products? ARC has actually improved it's track record on the matter upgrades. I believe their 80's vintage sp 6 preamplifier had versions a to e during its lifespan!