Which SS amp, for this C-J noob?

[CDLehner]

Hello AAs C-J community; you’re the reason I’m here! I have a C-J decision to make, I’m a C-J nooB, and I was told this is the best C-J forum on the Web!

Since I don’t have my sig with gear filled-out yet, let me tell you a little about me and my gear. Admittedly, this is a little snippet from my personal introductions page:

I am a one-source, digital streaming-only audiophile; but please don’t hold that against me. Audiophile is a dirty word to some…and music does come first with me; but I truly lust over gear too…so, guilty as charged.

I look forward to finding my way around AA. I’m a nooB here, but long-time, high-count poster at another forum…and it’s just not the kind of scene I dig much anymore. I won’t call them out by name, but…you get shouted-down if you admit to spending more than $10 on speaker cables, there’s a plethora of posts from college-kids, wanting to know the best CVs to use at their frat-house parties…and hardly any talk of music at all.

That’s not to say I’m a gear snob; can’t afford to be, even if I wanted to…lol. I’m a big bang-for-the-buck guy, and look to wring the best out of my modest, just-over-the-line 5-figure rig. I try to stay open-minded about all POVs, fall somewhere in the middle of the whole subjectivist vs. objectivist debate (with a slight lean to the left of the subjectivist side…just like my politics), and just love to talk shop.

I know some guys who like to “set it and forget it”, but that ain’t me. I guess some might call me a “futzer”; an audiophile who can’t leave well enough alone. Maybe some day, I will have heard it all...or at least enough to have decided what’s best for me; enough to let things be. For now, I haven’t heard enough, and have too much curiosity about this, that, and the other too…not to want to try different gear pretty regularly.

As such...I came here, because I’m looking for opinions on trying my first C-J SS amp…and another member recommended the C-J forum as a good one. Reviews and the trades are fine to peruse, but I don’t trust them nearly as much as the opinions and findings of other enthusiasts.

And that brings me back to C-J. My system currently consists of Belles 21a pre-amp, Belles 150a half-Hot-Rod (lol…unofficially some of the HR upgrades, but not all), and Dynaudio Special 25 monitors. I love the Belles sound, and this is probably the most musical amp I’ve owned to date (admittedly, without trying too many truly hi-end models)…but good as it is…for what it is…at some 15 years old, I have decided it’s the weak link in my system and time to upgrade.

Like I said earlier, I’m a bang-for-the-buck guy…so that means buying used. Since I like the Belles sound, a newer model in that line…like a 150a ref v1 or v2…makes sense, and if the right one comes along I might bite. However, I’d also like to try something a little different. In the name of full disclosure, I have an NAD M3 on its way…and I’m looking forward to auditioning that Integrated; but I also want to find a power-amp to mate up with my 21a, and see how things play out.

I know C-J is well-known and regarded for their tube gear…and that seems to be the natural slant around here; but it’s actually C-J SS that’s caught my eye. I just think tube/tube might be too "sweet" for me, as I'm just easing into the world of glass...lol. I started off looking at a 2300a; plenty of power, good price used. Then I came across a 2500a; same power rating (?), so what's the difference?

I did a little research, and I’ve read that some C-J enthusiasts actually prefer the 2300a to the 2500; because of the MOSFET output, the 2300a sounds more tube-like…more C-J…than its successor? Then I read that the ‘a’-revision improved the 2500a immensely, so maybe the 2300a wasn’t the favorite after all? However, I'm not sure I want the more "tube-like" of the two; as I said, if I wanted a tube amp I'd get one. Then I even thought that maybe I could get away with a 2250a. I know it has less power than the other 2 models, but my current room is pretty small (I know that more power isn't only about loudness…of course it’s not; plus, I hope not to have this small-ish room forever).

So…I have a ton of questions, to help me make this decision C-J guys. Like...what are the big differences between the 2300a and 2500a? It seems the ‘a’-revision models are much preferred, so what exactly goes into them? I do like to fidget with after-market power cords; which of these 3 models (2250a, 2300a, 2500a), if any, have female IEC (without modification of course)?

I saw one ad, where the seller said the 2500a came with a Black faceplate…and that he “upgraded” to the C-J Gold, but he would include the original Black faceplate with the unit (I know C-J guys covet that Gold, but I do tend to prefer Black); another C-J guy told me that’s BS…C-Js don’t have Black faceplates? Lastly…for now…given my system, room size, etc…what do you think is my sweet spot; which of these amps should I be taking a hard look at? I don’t know AA rules, but is talk about pricing allowed? If so, what kind of price is fair to pay for each of these models?

Before you ask…while I have my share of audiophile fodder, like anybody else; man cannot live by Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Alison Krauss, and Patricia Barber alone! I listen to EVERYTHING, and have my favs when it comes to Rock, Garage, Indie, Metal, Punk, New Wave, Funk, Folk, etc. Sometimes, I need to ROCK; and see the avatar…sometimes, I like it LOUD!

So what say you, C-J guys; help a nooB get on-board with the brand?

CD

[bgiliberti]

I have owned CJ's first mosfet amp, the MF80, for 20 years. Make no mistake, it doesn't sound like tubes -- nothing SS does IMO -- but it has some tube like qualities in terms of smoothness. I can't handle the "loose" bass of tube amps in my price range, so I got this and have been very happy. I do use a CJ tube preamp, to make sure to have some glass in the system. It's a great, highly musical arrangement. Good luck!

[ronenash]

My highest recomendation goes to the CA200. Its an integrated but can be used as a power amp as well. It is by far better then the 2300 and 2500 amps. If you want that tube-like sound find a use Motif Either the MS-100 or even better the ms 2001. They are much better built the the CJ MF series, have Mosfet in all stages including output and have that CJ sound of old days.
Still despite the overbuilt quality of the ms 2001 the CA200 is a better amp (more detailed, more harmonically rich, better soundstage and better focus).

[CDLehner]

Originally Posted by ronenash

My highest recomendation goes to the CA200. Its an integrated but can be used as a power amp as well. It is by far better then the 2300 and 2500 amps. If you want that tube-like sound find a use Motif Either the MS-100 or even better the ms 2001. They are much better built the the CJ MF series, have Mosfet in all stages including output and have that CJ sound of old days.
Still despite the overbuilt quality of the ms 2001 the CA200 is a better amp (more detailed, more harmonically rich, better soundstage and better focus).

Thanks ronenash; perhaps now is a good time to cover budget...lol. The amps I mentioned for contention, I've all seen in the ~$900-1500 range. Unfortunately, that's about where I'm looking. The CA200 looks to go more like $3500-4k.

Is the MF series junk? Should I just stick with a Belles 150a ref V1 or v2, in that under-$1500 range?

[Coppy]

Originally Posted by ronenash

My highest recomendation goes to the CA200. Its an integrated but can be used as a power amp as well. It is by far better then the 2300 and 2500 amps. If you want that tube-like sound find a use Motif Either the MS-100 or even better the ms 2001. They are much better built the the CJ MF series, have Mosfet in all stages including output and have that CJ sound of old days.
Still despite the overbuilt quality of the ms 2001 the CA200 is a better amp (more detailed, more harmonically rich, better soundstage and better focus).

Hey CDL....

I completely agree with Ron above. Over the years I've owned every SS amp CJD has made save the Motif series. If you can find one in your price range the Premier 350 SS amp is the one to own. it's an 85lb. anchor but you can own it and forget you ever need a new amp regardless of your future speaker purchases. By the way, the black faceplate is the upgrade. For WAF, I paid extra for one on my first good CJD preamp, the Premier 14. Good luck in your search.

[CDLehner]

Originally Posted by Coppy

Hey CDL....

I completely agree with Ron above. Over the years I've owned every SS amp CJD has made save the Motif series. If you can find one in your price range the Premier 350 SS amp is the one to own. it's an 85lb. anchor but you can own it and forget you ever need a new amp regardless of your future speaker purchases. By the way, the black faceplate is the upgrade. For WAF, I paid extra for one on my first good CJD preamp, the Premier 14. Good luck in your search.

Thanks Coppy. I can't seem to read anything but GLOWING reviews of that amp...and what's not to like; 350 watts per side (and double that into my 4ohm Dyns?)...big, beautiful C-J goodness. But is it realistic to think I'll find a $9500 amp, from 2004...in my modest price-range?

I'll certainly keep an eye out, but that seems like it would be a real coup.

[ronenash]

a) the MF series is not junk. The latest models MF2300, MF2500 are great amps. The CA200 is better but there is always a better amp at higher prices.
b) I would still try to hunt down a used Motif and send it to CJ for some upgrades.
c) The P350 although one of the best amp ever made is way out of your price range. They are under high demand in the used market and still command high prices.

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Thanks Coppy. I can't seem to read anything but GLOWING reviews of that amp...and what's not to like; 350 watts per side (and double that into my 4ohm Dyns?)...big, beautiful C-J goodness. But is it realistic to think I'll find a $9500 amp, from 2004...in my modest price-range?I'll certainly keep an eye out, but that seems like it would be a real coup.

There is also an MF200, which is basically the same as my mf80 but with 200 watts. I would think it will be under $1000, and I think you will like it. My understanding is that the later MF2100-2300 were pretty similar to the mf80 and mf200, undoubtedly with some improvements and definitely more power, if you need that. They all sounded the same as the MF80 to me to be honest. They are all very lush sounding and on the warm side -- quite mellow, like an old Martin guitar. I never heard the 2300A, which has better parts in the circuits.

[jimtranr]

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Is the MF series junk?

Not to these ears. I have the stock 2500, not the A, partnered with a Premier 17LS line stage. The 2500 was a very good match for the Maggie 1.6's I had in the dedicated room I had to evacuate, and an excellent one with the more sensitive Paradigm SE-3's in the "new" space. Some reviewers have found it a tad light on the bottom end (one performance aspect addressed with the "A" upgrade), but I didn't find that to be the case in driving the current-hungry 1.6's down to their effective lower limit of ~35Hz in the dedicated room, and it's certainly no slouch in that regard in the new setup.

The one minus I'd note is the captive power cord.

[CDLehner]

Originally Posted by ronenash

a) the MF series is not junk. The latest models MF2300, MF2500 are great amps. The CA200 is better but there is always a better amp at higher prices.
b) I would still try to hunt down a used Motif and send it to CJ for some upgrades.
c) The P350 although one of the best amp ever made is way out of your price range. They are under high demand in the used market and still command high prices.

Thanks again; I'd love to go up the C-J ladder, but the timing couldn't be more awful to think about extending myself.

I appreciate all the advice guys; trust me, that Premier 350 sounds like an amp to end all amps, and it'll be on my wish-list...down the road. But for now, better focus on these MFs, which seem to be available more in my budget.

So the 2300 and 2500 are newer than the 2250? I thought the 2300 was the oldest of the bunch, and the 2250 and 2500 were from the same series? If the 2300 and 2500 are from the same era, what's the big difference; I know the power seems to be rated the same?