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#12
10-28-2019, 11:16 AM
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Noise is a complex phenomenon. For example:
"...the noise factor of a cascade of two amplifiers is minimized if we put the one with the lowest noise measure first. Clearly, the amplifier with the lowest noise measure is not necessarily the one with the lowest noise figure, nor the one with the largest gain! As we shall see later, the noise factor depends on the source impedance. The minimum noise factor is almost never obtained for an impedance matched source. Source impedance matching only results in maximum gain. A different source impedance leads to minimum noise factor, and yet a different one minimizes the noise measure!" The C500 has an input impedance of 22K ohms and an output impedance of 220 ohms. The men220 has an input impedance of 10K ohms and an output impedance of 50 ohms. The MC601 has an input impedance of 22K ohms. They are not identical. They also have different Signal to Noise Ratios: C500T (93dB), men220 (100dB), MC601 (94dB-96dB). The noise is likely to vary depending on the position of the men220 in the circuit. Hence my suggestion to try the men220 in the processor loop.
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Amplification: McIntosh C2200, NYAL Modified Super-it, Private design Tube monoblocks with Tube-regulated power supplies Sources: Linn LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII/Shure V15VxMR, Linn Unidisk SC, ADL GT40, Oppo BDP-105D, Magnum Dynalab Etude FM Tuner, Bell Expressvu 9200 PVR (2) Video: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO 110FD (50") Speakers: Private design Folded back-loaded corner horns (3-way: JBL drivers) Cables: Linn Silver, Audioquest 
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#13
10-28-2019, 11:43 AM
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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#14
10-28-2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Uh oh! What happened next...? 
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Amplification: McIntosh C2200, NYAL Modified Super-it, Private design Tube monoblocks with Tube-regulated power supplies Sources: Linn LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII/Shure V15VxMR, Linn Unidisk SC, ADL GT40, Oppo BDP-105D, Magnum Dynalab Etude FM Tuner, Bell Expressvu 9200 PVR (2) Video: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO 110FD (50") Speakers: Private design Folded back-loaded corner horns (3-way: JBL drivers) Cables: Linn Silver, Audioquest
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#15
10-28-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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#16
10-28-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
I resemble that remark...
__________________
Amplification: McIntosh C2200, NYAL Modified Super-it, Private design Tube monoblocks with Tube-regulated power supplies Sources: Linn LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII/Shure V15VxMR, Linn Unidisk SC, ADL GT40, Oppo BDP-105D, Magnum Dynalab Etude FM Tuner, Bell Expressvu 9200 PVR (2) Video: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO 110FD (50") Speakers: Private design Folded back-loaded corner horns (3-way: JBL drivers) Cables: Linn Silver, Audioquest
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#17
10-30-2019, 08:43 PM
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Prior to adding the men220 there was no noise at all, no matter how high I turned the c500 volume up.
I will try in the processing Loop Sunday and let you know how I make out. Thank you for all the detailed explanations and the assistance.
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2 channel B&W 802 D3 | McIntosh C500T | McIntosh MC601 | McIntosh MEN220 | McIntosh MPC500 | Oppo BDP-105 | AQ Fire XLRs | AQ NRG-1000 Power Cords | AQ Diamond Ethernet Cables | Straightwire Virtuoso H speaker cables
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#18
10-30-2019, 09:43 PM
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The conclusion I reach after reading this thread is that the MEN 220 is simply noisier than your C 500T. Having owned a C 500T I can attest to its dead quiet operation and outstanding overall fidelity. Putting the MEN 220 in the processor loop will answer the question.
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v
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#19
11-19-2019, 11:43 PM
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Any update on the men220 in the processor loop?
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Amplification: McIntosh C2200, NYAL Modified Super-it, Private design Tube monoblocks with Tube-regulated power supplies Sources: Linn LP12/Lingo/Ittok LVIII/Shure V15VxMR, Linn Unidisk SC, ADL GT40, Oppo BDP-105D, Magnum Dynalab Etude FM Tuner, Bell Expressvu 9200 PVR (2) Video: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO 110FD (50") Speakers: Private design Folded back-loaded corner horns (3-way: JBL drivers) Cables: Linn Silver, Audioquest
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#20
11-20-2019, 07:21 AM
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My system has always had some audible hiss with no music playing and the spiders and other creepy crawlies in my listening room sound asleep in their beds. What I eventually ended up doing was adding some 10 db attenuators in the preamplifier to power amplifier interconnects (7.1 channels in my case) and cranking the volume a little bit more than I was used to. Much cheaper than looking for quieter electronics and passive attenuators don't add any noise of their own.
Last edited by BlueSky; 11-20-2019 at 07:25 AM.
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