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  #391  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:33 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Beautiful stands beautiful amps and pre. Wish I could hear them.
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  #392  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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Beautiful stands beautiful amps and pre. Wish I could hear them.
Thank you! Old Krell was looking quite god.

Go outside and listen carefully.
I turn it up!
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Last edited by Apexorca; 11-20-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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  #393  
Old 11-23-2019, 05:59 AM
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I'm trying to match feet underneath Krell FPB. I want it to be isolated as well as possible. The platform and Krell weights 75kg. Often the feats are "one size fits all" and often they are expensive.
Therefore I want tailor made feet. Calculation suggest Sylomer SR 42, 25mm x 55mm x 100mm. That gives an optimal reduction of vibrations for a fraction of the cost.
I also have to make a metal plate on top and bottom of the Sylomer, like a hamburger, to stabilize it.

To cut out the right proportion Sylomer is the first step.

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  #394  
Old 11-28-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
I'm trying to match feet underneath Krell FPB. I want it to be isolated as well as possible. The platform and Krell weights 75kg. Often the feats are "one size fits all" and often they are expensive.
Therefore I want tailor made feet. Calculation suggest Sylomer SR 42, 25mm x 55mm x 100mm. That gives an optimal reduction of vibrations for a fraction of the cost.
I also have to make a metal plate on top and bottom of the Sylomer, like a hamburger, to stabilize it.

To cut out the right proportion Sylomer is the first step.


Feet of Sound Sience (FoSS) by Apexorca











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Last edited by Apexorca; 11-28-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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  #395  
Old 11-30-2019, 01:58 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Apexorca, great innovations. How is your system sounding? I am assuming that the great presence and resolution of your Krell HRC and FPB gear are very synergestic with the SF. I have not heard you comment on your system's overall sound. Are you hearing an improvement? With my FPB 700 amp it set on a marble slab on my hardwood floor. I loved the sound. I kept the amp for over 10 years. It gave out after about 8 years of heavy use and I sent it back to Krell for a complete do over. They did a great job and It worked perfectly until I traded it in on my 1.2KW's. I'm a Mac Man, as you know and I just felt it was time for a change. I didn't particularly like the "new" Krell without Mr. D'Agostino and he was just establishing his new company, so now I'm completely Mac and happy with my 1.25KW. Anyway, I did go ahead and purchase the Wilson XVX. Don't know if you are aware. I admire you a lot.

Charles
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  #396  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Apexorca, great innovations. How is your system sounding? I am assuming that the great presence and resolution of your Krell HRC and FPB gear are very synergestic with the SF. I have not heard you comment on your system's overall sound. Are you hearing an improvement? With my FPB 700 amp it set on a marble slab on my hardwood floor. I loved the sound. I kept the amp for over 10 years. It gave out after about 8 years of heavy use and I sent it back to Krell for a complete do over. They did a great job and It worked perfectly until I traded it in on my 1.2KW's. I'm a Mac Man, as you know and I just felt it was time for a change. I didn't particularly like the "new" Krell without Mr. D'Agostino and he was just establishing his new company, so now I'm completely Mac and happy with my 1.25KW. Anyway, I did go ahead and purchase the Wilson XVX. Don't know if you are aware. I admire you a lot.

Charles
This makes me spin Charles!

At first. Krell FPB and KRC-HR are a good match with The Sf. Big surprice... even slightly better (due to my taste) than Gryphon Antileon and Krell Evo 202.

It can be of importance to give an example of some other speakers I like. Just to get the idea of how my system sounds. Keiser, Verity Audio, Wilsson Alexx, Kharma, Tad Ref One.

About how my system sounds... The Sf is making the biggest footprint in this system. I'v heard it with several different amps. It sounds good with ARC Power amp for around 7.000€ to Gryphon 70.000€. The SF is not that picky. It's not that hard to get good sound out of it. Hence it sounds good with great many amps. But fore sure it gets even better when well matched.

In my point of view The Sf is reproducing pure music. You never have to think about HiFi-parameters. It can really fill the room with music and you will never have any listening fatigue, not even playing with high volumes. Control and headroom is great especially with Krell FPB's endless power.

A'll try to get you an idea of how my system sounds in words. (It's hard)
The instruments is sounding big if they are big ore small if they are small. Some big speaker always sounds big. Thats boring to me.
The system has to be able to fill the room from corner to corner with music and make the volyme of the air pressurized in the right way. If not you will be distant from the music and be a spectator without involvement.
It's a soft smooth sound but still with high resolution. You can relax when listening. Some system makes you on your toes when listening and you get a bit tensed. Sometimes I like that, but not long term in my house.
The midrange is the key that makes the music magic. This is a trade mark for Sonus faber speakers since Franco Serblin. Midrange is backed up with two superfast 10' membranes in each speaker and a 15' woofer. 10' membranes x4 makes the mid-base very physical, dynamic and fast. If the speaker are well placed in the room you can get this great synergy to move a lot of air fast in the mid bas frequencies and that makes the transient and power very good. This is perhaps the best physical dynamic "drum" punch I'v heard from systems like this. If you want to, with the right music, it really hits you in the chest.
At the same time, a small ensemble playing fragile and soft music have texture, microdynamics and perspective.

For me, my system has to be able to deal with all kinds of music very well. This system is not specialized as some are.

I think the dynamic ability of a system is of great importance. One of the biggest difference between live music and reproduced music is not resolution, frequencies respons ore what ever, it's the dynamic ability. In a speaker I like when the dynamic ability is the same from top frequencies to bottom end, often it's not.

Resolution, dynamics and coherence from top to bottom is important. Thats how I try to trim my system. I like the sound to be clear and open and still warm and deep.

My front end signal starts with very accurate tested units due to my preferences above. Brinkmann Balance, Einsten The Turntables Choice, MSB and some renovated professional R2R (Lyrec and some Studer) are sources that suits my sound.
The Nordost cables represent musical tajming, clearity, airiness and fast transients in my system. My systems most important cable is the Valhalla 2 tonearm-cable. It made my vinyl sound complete.

I think my system can produce all this. This is not happening from one day to another. I'v been working on this with great fun and dedication for many years. Before, my system was more like "one part from that dealer and one from another" with no thinking about synergy. Just almost random parts. It was when I understood the importance of synergy between components , importance of acoustics and clean power from the wall I really started to do a good job with my music reproduction.
Do not underestimate the personal goal of what the music should sound like. That is not achieved without much experience of both live music and many great HiFi systems. Otherwise it's hard to trim the system.

The new feet under Krell FPB is not doing that much. It makes the background a bit more dark therefore the music gets more easy to follow and booth smother, warmer analogue sound and more resolution is experienced... but just a bit.
Though, on this level of performance in well matched system it's the small parts one by one that makes it really good.

I'm happy with my sound and I'v been that for many years. In a way I'm there, at the end with the sound, but it's fun to do these small changes for the better along the road. Thats what a hobby is all about. Since there is so big difference between live music and reproduced music it's a lot of things you could make better and it's fun to do it.
All in the name of music. The music is my goal, the units are just the way to get there.

I have respect for different opinions about how music is best reproduced. Everyone tries to get close to their own personal taste and for sure my taste is not what everyone think is the best. Thats fine.


I hope this can make you an ide of how I think my sound is like.
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Last edited by Apexorca; 12-04-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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  #397  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:35 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
This makes me spin Charles!

At first. Krell FPB and KRC-HR are a good match with The Sf. Big surprice... even slightly better (due to my taste) than Gryphon Antileon and Krell Evo 202.

It can be of importance to give an example of some other speakers I like to get the idea of how my system sounds. Keiser, Verity Audio, Wilsson Alexx, Kharma, Tad Ref One.

About how my system sounds... The Sf is making the biggest footprint in this system. I'v heard it with several different amps. It sounds good with ARC Power amp for around 7.000€ to Gryphon 70.000€. The SF is not that picky. It's not that hard to get good sound out of it. Hence it sounds good with great many amps. But fore sure it gets even better when well matched.

In my point of view The Sf is reproducing pure music. You never have to think about HiFi-parameters. It can really fill the room with music and you will never have any listening fatigue, not even playing with high volumes. Control and headroom is great especially with Krell FPB's endless power.

A'll try to get you an idea of how my system sounds in words. (It's hard)
The instruments is sounding big if they are big ore small if they are small. Some big speaker always sounds big. Thats boring to me.
The system has to be able to fill the room from corner to corner with music and make the volyme of the air pressurized in the right way. If not you will be distant from the music and be a spectator without involvement.
It's a soft smooth sound but still with high resolution. You can relax when listening. Some system makes you on your toes when listening and you get a bit tensed. Sometimes I like that, but not long term in my house.
The midrange is the key that makes the music magic. This is a trade mark for Sonus faber speakers since Franco Serblin. Midrange is backed up with two superfast 10' membranes in each speaker and a 15' woofer. 10' membranes x4 makes the mid-base very physical, dynamic and fast. If the speaker are well placed in the room you can get this great synergy to move a lot of air fast in the mid bas frequencies and that makes the transient and power very good. This is perhaps the best physical dynamic "drum" punch I'v heard from systems like this. If you want to, with the right music, it really hits you in the chest.
At the same time, a small ensemble playing fragile and soft music have texture, microdynamics and perspective.

For me, my system has to be able to deal with all kinds of music very well. This system is not specialized as some are.

I think the dynamic ability of a system is of great importance. One of the biggest difference between live music and reproduced music is not resolution, frequencies respons ore what ever, it's the dynamic ability. In a speaker I like when the dynamic ability is the same from top frequencies to bottom end, often it's not.

Resolution, dynamics and coherence from top to bottom is important. Thats how I try to trim my system. I like the sound to be clear and open and still warm and deep.

My front end signal starts with very accurate tested units due to my preferences above. Brinkmann Balance, Einsten The Turntables Choice, MSB and some renovated professional R2R (Lyrec and some Studer) are sources that suits my sound.
The Nordost cables represent musical tajming, clearity, airiness and fast transients in my system. My systems most important cable is the Valhalla 2 tonearm-cable. It made my vinyl sound complete.

I think my system can produce all this. This is not happening from one day to another. I'v been working on this with great fun and dedication for many years. Before, my system was more like "one part from that dealer and one from another" with no thinking about synergy. Just almost random parts. It was when I understood the importance of synergy between components , importance of acoustics and clean power from the wall I really started to do a good job with my music reproduction.
Do not underestimate the personal goal of what the music should sound like. That is not achieved without much experience of both live music and many great HiFi systems. Otherwise it's hard to trim the system.

The new feet under Krell FPB is not doing that much. It makes the background a bit more dark therefore the music gets more easy to follow and booth smother, warmer analogue sound and more resolution is experienced... but just a bit.
Though, on this level of performance in well matched system it's the small parts one by one that makes it really good.

I'm happy with my sound and I'v been that for many years. In a way I'm there, at the end with the sound, but it's fun to do these small changes for the better along the road. Thats what a hobby is all about. Since there is so big difference between live music and reproduced music it's a lot of things you could make better and it's fun to do it.
All in the name of music. The music is my goal, the units are just the way to get there.

I have respect for different opinions about how music is best reproduced. Everyone tries to get close to their own personal taste and for sure my taste is not what everyone think is the best. Thats fine.


I hope this can make you an ide of how I think my sound is like.
You are my true comrade. I identify with all that you said.

Speakers that are picky with amps are often not that good.

The midrange is the key. It must be totally open and free of edge but very resolving at the same time.

I call dynamics the "jump factor". A top flight system must have limitless dynamic ability. My Alexx are very good in this respect but I think the SF its superior. I am hoping my XVX will equal your SF. Almost all speakers are lacking in dynamics. It is simply impossible for a speaker to reproduce music at a live level. No speaker can really do it but I hope my XVX will approach this. I know your SF can. Dynamics are related to sensitivity. Speakers with low sensitivity will have limited dynamics.

I think what you mean by the word "trim" is also the word "refine". Although your English a little sloppy I find your vocabulary truly excellent. "Trim" is such an excellent choice of words for what you are attempting to describe.

I'm a great believer in synergy. Finding components that work well together is supremely important. It seems to me that you have achieved this goal. An example of this is the volume range of components. Typically with my all Mac reference system, bluegrass music is loud at a 50% level (about 3-4 watts peak). I have some music that doesn't need more than about a 35% level to achieve plenty of loudness in my room (about 3-4 watts).

But put on some live performances with Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Phil Collins, or Johnny Cash, etc. and you want at least 50-70% for full effect. It can get very loud. It can average 120 watts peak hold but continuous because there is never any letup. I rarely feel like listening at this level but sometimes I want to. Although obviously very loud it shouldn't sound loud, because it is dynamic compression that makes prerecorded music sound loud. A reference system should never sound "loud".

Put on Mahler the 3rd or 6th symphony and I need 75% and the peak watt range is from below .012 to well over 120 watts at this volume level! That's over a 10,000 peak hold watt range! Incredible. I want to be able to hear every little sound at the lowest level and the climaxes should be totally without strain. The voices at the 75% level should be adequately loud, totally open, not recessed in any way, and very natural. All the while you want a noise floor many many decibels below the music. This is incredibly hard to achieve. So with my Mac reference system my effective volume range is 35% to 75%. This is a near perfect volume range and is very important and difficult to achieve. My noise floor is incredibly low as I have no audible hum, hiss, or noise at 100% volume (wide open and all amps on) with any input with ear right next to speaker.

Component sensitivity (gain) of a system is often overlooked/forgotten and you can find yourself listening with the volume control in an inappropriate range if not very careful. The quality of the volume control is extremely important to the overall sound of any system. The overall gain of a system is very important.

This is just one example of synergy.

"Do not underestimate the personal goal of what the music should sound like. That is not achieved without much experience of both live music and many great HiFi systems. Otherwise it's hard to trim the system."

I think that about sums up the way I feel about reproduction of prerecorded music. It is only by experiencing a number of systems with high performance and reference gear over many years can one achieve what you have achieved. My experience with my new XVX will be quite interesting. I am very fortunate to have the opportunity to possess this speaker. I hope it to be competitive with your SF.

Your comrade,

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 12-04-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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  #398  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:28 PM
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Apexorca Apexorca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
You are my true comrade. I identify with all that you said.

Speakers that are picky with amps are often not that good.

The midrange is the key. It must be totally open and free of edge but very resolving at the same time.

I call dynamics the "jump factor". A top flight system must have limitless dynamic ability. My Alexx are very good in this respect but I think the SF its superior. I am hoping my XVX will equal your SF. Almost all speakers are lacking in dynamics. It is simply impossible for a speaker to reproduce music at a live level. No speaker can really do it but I hope my XVX will approach this. I know your SF can. Dynamics are related to sensitivity. Speakers with low sensitivity will have limited dynamics.

I think what you mean by the word "trim" is also the word "refine". Although your English a little sloppy I find your vocabulary truly excellent. "Trim" is such an excellent choice of words for what you are attempting to describe.

I'm a great believer in synergy. Finding components that work well together is supremely important. It seems to me that you have achieved this goal. An example of this is the volume range of components. Typically with my all Mac reference system, bluegrass music is loud at a 50% level (about 3-4 watts peak). I have some music that doesn't need more than about a 35% level to achieve plenty of loudness in my room (about 3-4 watts).

But put on some live performances with Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Phil Collins, or Johnny Cash, etc. and you want at least 50-70% for full effect. It can get very loud. It can average 120 watts peak hold but continuous because there is never any letup. I rarely feel like listening at this level but sometimes I want to. Although obviously very loud it shouldn't sound loud, because it is dynamic compression that makes prerecorded music sound loud. A reference system should never sound "loud".

Put on Mahler the 3rd or 6th symphony and I need 75% and the peak watt range is from below .012 to well over 120 watts at this volume level! That's over a 10,000 peak hold watt range! Incredible. I want to be able to hear every little sound at the lowest level and the climaxes should be totally without strain. The voices at the 75% level should be adequately loud, totally open, not recessed in any way, and very natural. All the while you want a noise floor many many decibels below the music. This is incredibly hard to achieve. So with my Mac reference system my effective volume range is 35% to 75%. This is a near perfect volume range and is very important and difficult to achieve. My noise floor is incredibly low as I have no audible hum, hiss, or noise at 100% volume (wide open and all amps on) with any input with ear right next to speaker.

Component sensitivity (gain) of a system is often overlooked/forgotten and you can find yourself listening with the volume control in an inappropriate range if not very careful. The quality of the volume control is extremely important to the overall sound of any system. The overall gain of a system is very important.

This is just one example of synergy.

"Do not underestimate the personal goal of what the music should sound like. That is not achieved without much experience of both live music and many great HiFi systems. Otherwise it's hard to trim the system."

I think that about sums up the way I feel about reproduction of prerecorded music. It is only by experiencing a number of systems with high performance and reference gear over many years can one achieve what you have achieved. My experience with my new XVX will be quite interesting. I am very fortunate to have the opportunity to possess this speaker. I hope it to be competitive with your SF.

Your comrade,

Charles

"You are my true comrade. I identify with all that you said."

Likewise.

You pointed out some things that I never thought of that much.
"the gain-factor". I have to look into that.

Regarding Mahler 3rd and similar dynamic music the dynamic range makes it so much more involving and fun to listen to. R2R and good mastertape copies is normally top of the line in this matter. R2R is really pointing out what your other part of your system can do. No other signal source, not vinyl, no digital source at all can beat that. But you have to have a system that can deal with dynamic to get the full advantage. ( I'v got Mahler 3rd on tape...)

"The noise floor"
To have a good cable loom regarding signal ground, like Nordost Q-Core system, makes the background darker because there are less differences in the signal ground in different products in the system. Q-core smoothes voltage between them out.

"Although obviously very loud it shouldn't sound loud, because it is dynamic compression that makes prerecorded music sound loud. A reference system should never sound "loud"."
You are so spot on.
Sometimes when you'r listening to a good system with no listening fatigue and turn to your friend to say something. If you can't hear your own voice, then you know it's a good system.

"My experience with my new XVX will be quite interesting."
Thats for sure.
I'm very confident that they will be as good as it gets. I think you will have the most perfect sound and addictive music reproduction.
It will be so interesting to follow your journey during break in and further on.



/Carl
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Last edited by Apexorca; 12-05-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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  #399  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:19 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
"You are my true comrade. I identify with all that you said."

Likewise.

You pointed out some things that I never thought of that much.
"the gain-factor". I have to look into that.

Regarding Mahler 3rd and similar dynamic music the dynamic range makes it so much more involving and fun to listen to. R2R and good mastertape copies is normally top of the line in this matter. R2R is really pointing out what your other part of your system can do. No other signal source, not vinyl, no digital source at all can beat that. But you have to have a system that can deal with dynamic to get the full advantage. ( I'v got Mahler 3rd on tape...)

"The noise floor"
To have a good cable loom regarding signal ground, like Nordost Q-Core system, makes the background darker because there are less differences in the signal ground in different products in the system. Q-core smoothes voltage between them out.

"Although obviously very loud it shouldn't sound loud, because it is dynamic compression that makes prerecorded music sound loud. A reference system should never sound "loud"."
You are so spot on.
Sometimes when you'r listening to a good system with no listening fatigue and turn to your friend to say something. If you can't hear your own voice, then you know it's a good system.

"My experience with my new XVX will be quite interesting."
Thats for sure.
I'm very confident that they will be as good as it gets. I think you will have the most perfect sound and addictive music reproduction.
It will be so interesting to follow your journey during break in and further on.



/Carl
Carl, As you can tell from the time I make my posts, my time is somewhat limited but I am going back through all your posts from the time you acquired your Fenice. It is quite a journey. I think the key is experience. Although most of us have money, no one has endless money and part of the fun of it is to make wise definitive decisive decisions regarding equipment.

In that vein before going on, I hope you will be looking at estate sales, etc. for a Krell Master Reference mono amp. You have the space. It is the finest amp in the world. While the mono FPB's that you have can't be beat, I would pass out, if I saw a Master Reference driving your Fenice. You already have one of the finest well thought out beautiful systems in the world. I especially appreciate the work you have done on your room to trim your overall frequency response. But the addition of Master Reference mono amps might just make your system in the top 5. It would be incredible.

Now back to my topic of experience. As I said I do not have a limitless budget and even if I did what's the fun in throwing money at something you don't understand or appreciate.

So I retired at a very early age. I made good investments and they all paid off, leaving me with a lot of excess money. I bought a Maxx3 to get started with Wilson. It was an excellent speaker but clearly not what I wanted to end up with. I was severely tempted by the XLF but after calming down over the course of several months, I noted that not withstanding the 1st generation CST tweeter, its woofers were 15 years old. In essence, Wilson did not introduce enough new technology for me to bite but I still wanted more. So I jumped the XLF (saved a lot of money) and bought the Alexx. I have no criticism of it, sonically. But it is not a true reference as is your Fenice. I wanted a true reference but would I ever get the opportunity to experience one? I hope you may understand how fortunate you are to have experienced a true reference loudspeaker from very possibly the premier loudspeaker manufacturer in the world, i.e SF. I read about your acquisition of the Fenice. Your are one fortunate man. Would I ever have an opportunity like this? I'm not getting any younger. When you get too old to hear, what's the point?

Then a few months ago I came across the Chronosonic XVX thread in the Wilson Forum. I thought WOW! The XVX leapfrogs both the XLF and WAMM and will fit into my room, at half the price of the WAMM. Every driver is new and the alnico mids I expect to be spectacular. I somehow knew this was my one chance in my lifetime. My one opportunity. I couldn't afford to wait a year. I had to call my financial adviser but he said I could easily afford it. I closed the deal in principle at a grocery checkout scanner at Walmart on my cell phone with my dealer. It happened so quick it made my head swim.

My criticisms of my Alexx are not in the sonic realm. The Alexx uses a 5.75" mid from the Sabrina. It uses a Mk.3 CST tweeter, not the most current version which is Mk.5. It is clear that the 4" upper mid is the preferred size to mate with the CST tweeter and this driver is specially enhanced for the XVX. The lower mid while superb and used throughout the Wilson line is becoming dated. The alnico mids sealed the deal for me. In short there is absolutely nothing about this speaker that I do not consider perfect for me, using my vast experience in the high end. The materials/details used in the XVX are superior even to the WAMM. The time alignment mechanism is equal to the WAMM in accuracy and much more refined. It is what makes the XVX a true reference. I understand that its cost is 225,000.00 of the speaker. Speakers below it in the Wilson line that do not possess this mechanism cannot achieve the same accuracy. I believe it will separate the XVX from the rest of the Wilson line for years to come. So this to me is an example of how patience and very significant experience (albeit good some luck, everyone needs a little bit of it) has allowed me to go from a Mac XRT30 to a Maxx3 to Alexx to XVX and obtain a true reference loudspeaker with no intervening transducers.

Even more than your sound, I admire the thought and effort you have expended on your system. Your story is one for the ages.

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 12-05-2019 at 06:40 AM.
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