Have we all been duped??

[Masterlu]

[GreginNH1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Greg.......To this day my ears remain the ultimate authority for what pleases my sense of hearing and my state of mind when enjoying music. I let my ears be my guide. This approach has served me well.

Dan - I totally agree with you. Based on my experience, there has been little correlation between price and sound quality. My ears are now in charge of my wallet. By way of reference, my current speaker cables (Accusound) which caters primarily to the recording industry have outperformed the other dozen brands I have owned and at a fraction of the cost!

I can't think of one other aspect of our hobby that has the most amount of snake oil, marketing and markups than the cable industry.

[For The Love of Music]

As long as we are content with our sound that we have put together in the past, in the present or in the future, does it really matter whether it’s our ears, brain or a combination thereof?

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by GreginNH1

I can't think of one other aspect of our hobby that has the most amount of snake oil, marketing and markups than the cable industry.

I can think of another one, the "pharmaceutical" industry with 5,000 to 10,000% markup.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by For The Love of Music

As long as we are content with our sound that we have put together in the past, in the present or in the future, does it really matter whether it’s our ears, brain or a combination thereof?

Nope, it doesn't since "Reality is an Illusion". Somewhere down there on the subatomic level, the quirks, neutrinos, gluons and others are having a tremendous laugh at our expense as we try to wrap our minds around the cables.

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by Poppyhome

That would then mean pro audio uses low quality cheap recording equipment, mixers, mics, amps, etc.



Or, is it that the pro audio industry uses well made regular wires because there is no real difference.



Ron

The major recording studios that target most commercial pop use the equipment that is most suitable and practical for their sonic and commercial goals. They are not focused on sound quality, and could care less if cables make a difference or not. There are also of course many smaller studios that are focused on sound quality that use more high-end equipment and cables. Reference Recordings is an example. This is an old argument that performance cables must not make a difference because the pros don’t use them. It’s irrelevant: the pros are trying to do something quite different from what a home audio system is trying to achieve. It’s like saying performance cars must not make a difference because professional taxi drivers don’t use them.

[jdandy]

Serge.......Holding up to the scrutiny of science is not the final answer to everything. Science by its very nature and process is trial and error, failure after failure before the occasional success. Success is hardly 100% and hence is not the personification of perfection. Science is a great discipline and tool but it is not the essence of perfection or the final word by any stretch of the imagination.

I will agree that each of us can be persuaded by many external influences but ultimately it boils down to personal choice whether we perceive audible differences from any additions or subtractions from our sound systems, be it cables, source components, amps, preamps, or speakers. Because a measurement can be made, or even if it is unable to be obtained due to an inability to understand what actually needs to be measured, differences exists according to my own ears. The bottom line for me is what I hear, not what I read in advertisements, forums, white papers, or other external influences. If my ears are not happy with what I experience then I am not happy with whatever item I might be playing with at the time. It is totally personal and completely disconnected from the chatter of others.

Your seemingly agnostic approach that nothing is known of anything beyond material phenomena strikes me in several dissimilar ways, one being that I have read many of your words that support the differences many people hear with cables. I also read many of your words where you do your best to convince others that you now seem convinced there is little to no difference in cables and that those who do experience a difference are essentially being duped by external propaganda. I occasionally think you might simply be playing devil's advocate for the sake of creating a rise and enjoying the conflicts that follow. At the very least whatever controversy being advanced by your posts, even the ones I disagree with, they are generally always entertaining. I'll give you that.

[PHC1]

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) is best known for his theories of celestial motion, which contradicted the view that the Earth was fixed in the heavens and all other heavenly bodies revolved around it. Basing his ideas about celestial motion on his actual observation of the planets and their moons through a telescope, Galileo realized that the ancient theories of Ptolemy (which placed the Earth at the center of the universe) were incompatible with his observations.

In 1632 Galileo published his Dialogues on the Two Chief Systems of the World and immediately found himself in trouble . The original verdict condemned him to life in prison, but was amended the following day to house arrest, a sentence that remained in force until his death.


Much like the author of the video with whom this thread started, the guy who was deemed a Heretic and banned from the forums he participated in, so will this thread eventually come full circle as the heretical/scientific views go against the beliefs of the masses.

If you haven't read the "Trial of Galileo", I highly recommend it. https://www.famous-trials.com/galileotrial

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......
Your seemingly agnostic approach that nothing is known of anything beyond material phenomena strikes me in several dissimilar ways, one being that I have read many of your words that support the differences many people hear with cables.

I also read many of your words where you do your best to convince others that you now seem convinced there is little to no difference in cables and that those who do experience a difference are essentially being duped by external propaganda.

I occasionally think you might simply be playing devil's advocate for the sake of creating a rise and enjoying the conflicts that follow. At the very least whatever controversy being advanced by your posts, even the ones I disagree with, they are generally always entertaining. I'll give you that.

Dan, as I have already mentioned in response to Ivan, I found the golden middle ground works for me. So whatever posts you may be referring to, may have been due to my own internal skepticism but unwillingness to let the idea go that cables may actually make a difference. If I haven't myself experimented with cables over the 30 plus years, I would have been sitting squarely in one camp or the other. Alas, I find myself a skeptic but not willing to use a lamp cord in my system either.

I do remain agnostic, I can neither disprove nor prove the advantage of Uber cables. What my imagination or ears tell me I may be hearing because I "expect" to hear something different is also not exactly proof of anything unfortunately. So all we are left with is, believe in what you want to believe when it comes to cables.

As far as getting a rise out of our members, that is not my intention although I do understand that perhaps English being my second language and some cultural differences, it may very well come across that way. If that is the case, my apologies as that is not my intention. I would hate to think that members get a serious rise out of a cable discussion. That would just be sad!

Not for nothing but I think my posts often do inspire some "deeper" thinking into the subject at hand? As long as things remain civil and with respect towards one another, I think it adds an element of interest at the expense of occasional ruffled feathers when our views oppose each other. At the end of the day, I love to hear other folks opinions on each and every subject we cover at AA and that's what makes this forum great.

[PHC1]

Another dilemma worth pondering is the simple fact that our own systems do sound “different” from time to time. Sometimes better, sometimes clearly worse. Sure, we address those variables as being attributed to the cables, our racks, front ends, amplification, our vibration isolation and so on. A barrage of upgrades follows, especially cables and power conditioning when all else is in place and cannot be blamed anymore. Yet the fluctuations continue.. Typically the reaction and solutions involve further upgrades. Better cables, components and even better power conditioning and isolation components. Still, the 100% satisfaction remains elusive.

So is it really the gear still being finicky and power conditioners not being adequate or is it really our own ears and biological “perception” mechanisms?