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  #4051  
Old 08-16-2017, 10:26 AM
FloridaBoy FloridaBoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Rosco65 View Post
Regardless of the capability of the OPT, I'm not convinced driving the snot out of the output tubes gives the best sound. I own a [15 watt opt] KT88HO and a PSE. In both cases I find my best sound is with tube combinations that give less power than I could get by going with the 5AR4/KT88 combination. In my system and to my ears I find my KT88HO sounds best with a 5U4/6V6GT combination and my PSE sounds best with KT77'. Neither combination was chosen to give more power.

My opinion is that if you need the extra power you get going from a 12wpc KT88 to a 17wpc KT88 amp you really need to step up to the PSE. That being said, the larger OPT's on the 17wpc amp may provide better bass response even at lower power, though there may be a tradeoff. I have not listened to a 17wpc amp so cannot offer my direct opinion.
There is a sweet spot with these amps. Mine has the 20 watt transformers but is triode wired. *I* prefer 6L6GA's, Pope 6V6's and the GL KT77's. I wonder if it could be modded to switch between SE and triode?

I'm have these speakers: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...ii-loudspeaker I'm not sure what the real world specs are but they are fine with the Inspire. They need the right capacitors, like PIO and some normal speaker wire and IC's. Like the WE wire on Jeff Day's blog. Sometimes what is old is new.

Last edited by FloridaBoy; 08-16-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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  #4052  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:38 AM
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Adding to Rosco's reply... the servo function in subs increased damping so ringing is decreased. This makes for subs that are described as more articulate and less bloated (no "one-note bass"). The servo feedback loop helps the cone stop more quickly.

I also have Rythmik 12" subs and Rythmik 8" midbass modules to supplement the low end for my Omega SAMs which only get signal above 180Hz. The Inspire powers the SAMs. For me this takes care of the concerns about my 12wpc being enough for higher demand music like orchestral.

A cool feature in Rythmik amps is a switch to set for high, medium, or low damping according to your tastes.

Brian Ding is the brains behind Rythmik. Here are a couple of links to info:

rythmikaudio.com/DirectServo.html
rythmikaudio.com/faq.html
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Last edited by pstrisik; 08-16-2017 at 11:42 AM.
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  #4053  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:24 PM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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Originally Posted by Rosco65 View Post
In my case I use Rythmik Audio servo subs. This arrangement allows the use of subwoofer drivers (4 x 8" in my case) with much light cones. Normally, the lightweight cones would offer deep bass, but the servo amp controls the cone motion. The result is a "fast" (i.e., responsive) bass system that can not only provide the same apparent speed as lightweight main drivers (such as in your Tektons and my Omegas) but also cross over higher to help fill in the midbass. I can run my Omega Super Alnico Monitors crossed over to stereo Rythmik subwoofers as high as 200hz.
If I understand this correctly, the servo amp uses feedback from the mains' motion pattern to imitate (follow) the same motion pattern in the Subwoofer cones ... It is a first-order control system (Process Output Feedback loop and Correction Function). Very nice!

Evidently, the SUB driver cones have to be very light to overcome the physical inertia of typical heavier SUB drivers, otherwise the servo amp would never be able to control the frequencies involved. I'll need to check Rythmik again (I was told about these some time ago, although not in this particular context). Thanks!
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  #4054  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:31 PM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post
Adding to Rosco's reply... the servo function in subs increased damping so ringing is decreased. This makes for subs that are described as more articulate and less bloated (no "one-note bass"). The servo feedback loop helps the cone stop more quickly.

I also have Rythmik 12" subs and Rythmik 8" midbass modules to supplement the low end for my Omega SAMs which only get signal above 180Hz. The Inspire powers the SAMs. For me this takes care of the concerns about my 12wpc being enough for higher demand music like orchestral.

A cool feature in Rythmik amps is a switch to set for high, medium, or low damping according to your tastes.

Brian Ding is the brains behind Rythmik. Here are a couple of links to info:

rythmikaudio.com/DirectServo.html
rythmikaudio.com/faq.html
Thanks for the explanation and links. I wonder why do you guys believe the "oomph" deficit can be corrected only by boosting up the last 180-200 Hz. I would argue there is need for increased "oomph" also at higher frequencies. What gives?
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  #4055  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Musica Amantem View Post
Thanks for the explanation and links. I wonder why do you guys believe the "oomph" deficit can be corrected only by boosting up the last 180-200 Hz. I would argue there is need for increased "oomph" also at higher frequencies. What gives?
I think this only works when you use active filtering to keep the low frequencies from going to the amp in the first place. The low frequencies make the greatest demands on the amp and mains. Eliminating that portion of the FR leaves all the "oomph" for the mid and higher frequencies. It also provides a great deal more "oomph" for the lowest frequencies with higher power solid state plate amps on the subs.

Do I misunderstand your question? I think you know all this and use Harrison FMODs to accomplish this, no?
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  #4056  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:34 PM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post
I think this only works when you use active filtering to keep the low frequencies from going to the amp in the first place. The low frequencies make the greatest demands on the amp and mains. Eliminating that portion of the FR leaves all the "oomph" for the mid and higher frequencies. It also provides a great deal more "oomph" for the lowest frequencies with higher power solid state plate amps on the subs.

Do I misunderstand your question? I think you know all this and use Harrison FMODs to accomplish this, no?
Yes I do. My argument is, even with less low frequency demands, a flea-powered amp can only do so much. I'm sure the boosted lower frequencies will help, but only on the 180-200 Hz realm. I'm afraid there may be an imbalance biased toward the 180-200 Hz when facing passages with high demand peaks across a wide frequency range distribution.

I may be wrong, since I have yet to try this approach, which otherwise sounds promising.
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  #4057  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Musica Amantem View Post
Yes I do. My argument is, even with less low frequency demands, a flea-powered amp can only do so much. I'm sure the boosted lower frequencies will help, but only on the 180-200 Hz realm. I'm afraid there may be an imbalance biased toward the 180-200 Hz when facing passages with high demand peaks across a wide frequency range distribution.

I may be wrong, since I have yet to try this approach, which otherwise sounds promising.
No hard evidence, but logic tells me that more power is available for the > 180Hz frequencies than if the amp is run full range. Your fear that, if I read you accurately, output would sag > 180 with high demand passages would bias the FR towards the low end if true. I don't experience that when listening though.

Maybe semantics, but I don't consider the low end "boosted" in my system. I've worked to blend my mid-woofs and sub-woofs well with the mains filtered out where they do their work. I would call it boosted if the mains were full range and I added subs on top of that.

All of this depends on overall listening volume level however. I tend to keep the bulk of the levels at around 80db at the listening position. Of course, peaks occur higher. But if I were to listen at, say, 95db, then peaks would be higher still and my experience may not hold at those levels.
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Last edited by pstrisik; 08-16-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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  #4058  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:50 PM
Musica Amantem Musica Amantem is online now
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I see. Thanks for sharing that. It looks as if this is a feasible avenue for me, then. I'm about to get me a Gen 5 USB input module from Schiit to work with my Gen 3 moduled Yggdrasil, plus a good SPDIF coaxial digital cable, and I need to solder the Copper VCaps in my amp. After that (and all the while I'll be reviewing the Rythmik literature), I will consider going this way. If it works, it would really be ideal, as these Inspire units are gems!
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  #4059  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Musica Amantem View Post
I see. Thanks for sharing that. It looks as if this is a feasible avenue for me, then. I'm about to get me a Gen 5 USB input module from Schiit to work with my Gen 3 moduled Yggdrasil, plus a good SPDIF coaxial digital cable, and I need to solder the Copper VCaps in my amp. After that (and all the while I'll be reviewing the Rythmik literature), I will consider going this way. If it works, it would really be ideal, as these Inspire units are gems!
Let me know if you want more info on Rythmik configurations, particularly if you consider 8" mid-bass. Rosco has the stock dual 8" driver subs (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I have single driver 8" mid-bass with a Rythmik modified plate amp to limit how low they go and settings to blend with a sub for below 50hz. They can go above 200hz, where the regular subs will go up to something like 100. Rosco's dual 8" units may also go high while still going low. I haven't heard them and don't know how they would compare with Brian's 12" or 15" single drivers.

AVS Forum has the official Rythmik thread (Don't try to read the whole thing! More current info later in the thread):
avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.html
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  #4060  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musica Amantem View Post
I see. Thanks for sharing that. It looks as if this is a feasible avenue for me, then. I'm about to get me a Gen 5 USB input module from Schiit to work with my Gen 3 moduled Yggdrasil, plus a good SPDIF coaxial digital cable, and I need to solder the Copper VCaps in my amp. After that (and all the while I'll be reviewing the Rythmik literature), I will consider going this way. If it works, it would really be ideal, as these Inspire units are gems!


One other thing to consider. One thing I can vouch for is my lip-3a (upgraded from Lp-2 9 pin) is has significant additional gain than my lp-27a. More oomph with the inspire sound. If your close with the subs and such, this may be that last thing to achieve nirvana.
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