The Sasha/Wilson Tweeter Debate

[Cellindo]

Last night I went to listen to the Jazz concert of Avishai Cohen. I was sitting about 20 meters away from the drums.
Today I've played a couple of CDs from the same (great, btw) artist. I can tell you that the cymbals sounds extremely close to the real musical event.
However, the real kick drum during the show was much more impressive than the sound reproduction on the SASHA at home.

I don't know, if for the recording, any equalization is done during the mix process, however the difference (in terms of depth and impact) is quite significant for this instrument.

Or maybe my amps are not up-to the task with the difficult impedance load due to the SASHA.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by MadFloyd

Still-one, I respectfully disagree, at least in the case of Sashas. They are a difficult load on amplifiers. It sounds like you don't own them, but have heard them on a number of occasions. My guess is that they were carefully setup.

I thought they sounded good at RMAF, especially in the VTL room. The new VTL amps were pretty special and not just your typical amplifier.

I have tried a number of amplifiers on my Sashas and the differences are huge (and very enlightening). Sure, the Wilson characteristics are always there, but the overall tonal balance can shift wildly along with many other aspects of performance.

I think the graphs are also very helpful, but not the last word.

I disagree. The Sasha's sounded just as good in with the 90 Watt Doshi amps at RMAF as they did with the expensive VTL set-up save for a ever to slight degradation of bass and that might have been due to room constraints. Many amps present a difficult load under test conditions but perform very well under normal listening conditions.

I don't know too many speakers that do not sound different when presented with amps as different as Krell, McIntosh, MBL, or the tubes of your choice.

That is why I firmly believe you should pick the speaker you like, tweaking the sound is easy with an amp.

Jim

[BillK]

Since I can't post a new thread here yet, what have others here found to be the best way to "flatten" out their soundstage? I know that sounds weird, so let me explain:

With my current system my soundstage is like a real stage, so it's a wide swath of music in front of me.

When I had the Wilsons in for a demo they were toed as suggested and sounded great, but I found that the soundstage was "U"-shaped - think of a highly curved movie screen like Cinerama.

Sounds that were obviously in the left or right channels sounded like they were coming from a point much closer than sounds that were in the middle of the soundfield. So for example, sounds from the left or right speakers alone sounded as if they were coming from a point say 15' away where "mono" sounds sounded like they were coming from 20' or more straight ahead.

Is the answer less toe? Something else I should have tried?

[Cellindo]

Hi Bill,

First the quality of each recording has a gret deal to do with the soundstage you can feel and experience later when listening reproduced music on you (Wilson in this case) speakers. So, you should select a few CDs you are certain can offer the deep soundstage (both in the center AND in the corners) you wish to experience.

Toe-in can have a effect: try with less for exemple. Also the perfect symetry w.r.t. the rear wall is not always the best case. You need to perfectly center the stereo image (using a mono recording) by moving only one speaker, forward or backward, by 1cm steps.

However, as weird as this seems to, be my main advice would be to experience with different.....




.... power cords on the CD player, preamp, amp. The right cables have an immediate influence how the soundstage is reproduced. One brand to try would be NIRVANA, but there are plenty.

Enjoy the tweakings and trials with your SASHA.

[BillK]

The recordings I used all soundstage beautifully, and the depth of sound field is wonderful both with my current speakers as well as a pair of Vivid Audio K-1s I was demoing more or less at the same time. The Sasha also had a wonderful soundstage, it was just U-shaped as I described above. Less toe may have worked, though the toe was the recommended amount where I could just see the inside edge of each speaker.

Alas, I don't own a pair yet, rather I was trying to determine how to "flatten" the "U" a bit so I heard more of what my current speakers do as well as what I've heard from the Sasha at retailers and shows.

[NoahG]

BillK,

What are your current speakers?

FYI- the WASP instructions are included in the all of the owners manuals which are now available on the Wilson Audio website.

Jim Smith's new "Get Better Sound" DVD also has some excellent tips on speaker positioning.

[BillK]

The speakers were expertly positioned by my local Wilson dealer, so setup was perfect, soundstage was beautiful, but as I mentioned, the soundstage was a U-shaped. If say you normally would hear three performers, one stage left, one center, one stage right, the one in the center seemed about five to ten feet further back in the soundstage than the ones at stage left and right.

Current speakers are Apogee Caliper Signatures, and as mentioned the others I had in-home for a demo was a pair of Vivid Audio K-1s.

The Sashas did everything the K-1s did but better (much better bass), but the left/right/center apparent soundstage position differences was disconcerting and I didn't have a chance to play with reducing toe before the speakers had to go back.

Have any of the other Wilson and/or Sasha owners heard what I'm talking about?

[Cellindo]

Originally Posted by BillK

The speakers were expertly positioned by my local Wilson dealer, so setup was perfect, soundstage was beautiful, but as I mentioned, the soundstage was a U-shaped. If say you normally would hear three performers, one stage left, one center, one stage right, the one in the center seemed about five to ten feet further back in the soundstage than the ones at stage left and right.

Current speakers are Apogee Caliper Signatures, and as mentioned the others I had in-home for a demo was a pair of Vivid Audio K-1s.

The Sashas did everything the K-1s did but better (much better bass), but the left/right/center apparent soundstage position differences was disconcerting and I didn't have a chance to play with reducing toe before the speakers had to go back.

Have any of the other Wilson and/or Sasha owners heard what I'm talking about?

Btw, the VIVID AUDIO have an exceptional soundstage '3D / holographic style' that is difficult to match in Hifi terms.
The WILSON will render a soundstage that is closer to a Live musical performance. I've never heard any SASHA demos (CES / dealers / home) with a soundstage like a VIVID or HANSEN.

[MadFloyd]

I get the U soundstage with my Sashas if I have them out from the wall.

Any sound that is panned directly to the left or right sounds like it is coming directly from the speaker while everything else sounds like it's coming from behind the speakers, hence the 'U'. I don't like it.

That said, if you move the speakers closer to the wall (where I believe Wilson speakers like to live) everything will become flat. You won't have any real soundstage depth to speak of.

[BillK]

Hmmm... neither sounds like the "correct" solution to the issue.

I deeply appreciate your input, though; it's good to get input from people who've actually lived with these speakers more than the three days I had them on loan.