Guarneri Evolution toe in?

[Bavarian05]

I am curious how much toe in current owners have found to be best. Though I have to assume the owners room will play a role in this...

My room is a big pain in the neck. It has a lot of bass nodes. If speakers not perfectly placed, I will end up with bass frequencies that resonate and become very irritating very quickly. I have been playing around with position a lot since I received mine and think I am almost right where I need to be, though the positioning surprised me a bit.
They are closer together and toed in to where they cross in front of my listening position by about 12-14". This seems to make the room ALMOST disappear from my listening position. I also found that my room needed absorption on the ceiling. I hung a blanket up there and it makes a HUGE difference. Really wish I would have tried this years ago. Not sure why, I just never thought it was an issue. I've ordered some first absorption panels from Acoustic Geometry and will also be ordering some "cloud panels" for the ceiling as well.

It is fun and aggregating all at the same time. :-)
Every time I add something new (especially speakers) the tweaking starts all over again to find the best room placement.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by Bavarian05

I am curious how much toe in current owners have found to be best. Though I have to assume the owners room will play a role in this...

My room is a big pain in the neck. It has a lot of bass nodes. If speakers not perfectly placed, I will end up with bass frequencies that resonate and become very irritating very quickly. I have been playing around with position a lot since I received mine and think I am almost right where I need to be, though the positioning surprised me a bit.
They are closer together and toed in to where they cross in front of my listening position by about 12-14". This seems to make the room ALMOST disappear from my listening position. I also found that my room needed absorption on the ceiling. I hung a blanket up there and it makes a HUGE difference. Really wish I would have tried this years ago. Not sure why, I just never thought it was an issue. I've ordered some first absorption panels from Acoustic Geometry and will also be ordering some "cloud panels" for the ceiling as well.

It is fun and aggregating all at the same time. :-)
Every time I add something new (especially speakers) the tweaking starts all over again to find the best room placement.

Crossing in front like that often means distance apart and rake are off. Also floor and ceiling bounce are often far more critical than side walls for reflections. Makes perfect sense that the blanket was a big improvement.

Enjoy!

[Bavarian05]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Crossing in front like that often means distance apart and rake are off. Also floor and ceiling bounce are often far more critical than side walls for reflections. Makes perfect sense that the blanket was a big improvement. Enjoy!

Hi Bill,

What is a good rule of thumb for distance to listener and more importantly rake angle for the EVOs?
For instance, do they need to be tipped farther back the farther they are from the listener or tipped more forward, etc.?
I love that they don't have spikes, but it seems strange that SF wouldn't make recommendations for adjusting rake if a concern.
Any tips on this specific speaker would be very appreciated. My room is 11' X 15'.

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by Bavarian05

I am curious how much toe in current owners have found to be best. Though I have to assume the owners room will play a role in this...

As you said, it does come down to the room. So I'm not sure there can be any such thing as a general toe-in figure.

In my case, I have a relatively modest amount of toe in, but I am well away from side walls. I do find the rake angle to make quite a difference. Yes, it is a hassle with the Evo, need to shim it up. Mine is tilted back, but of course this depends on seating height, as well as floor/ceiling boundaries as Bill (very nice to see Bill still helping us out on SF placement!!!) mentioned.

My room size is somewhere around 13' x 18' with ceiling of 12', so not so different. But I have the speakers on the long wall, so well away from the sides walls.

Only thing slightly odd for me is your experience that toe-in is affecting bass nodes (well, anti-node to be accurate) so much. For me, I usually find that distance from rear wall, then distance from side wall (with speakers firing straight ahead) sets the bass response. Toe-in for me then determines sound stage and image density, but doesn't change tonal response. I find that rake affects treble response, and also, I am guessing, phase accuracy because it delivers sound stage depth and a sense everyone is playing the same tune at the same time.

Definitely try changing the rake angle, and start by tilting them back away from you. I believe from the Art Dudley review that Bill used a pencil, so he could change the rake angle by very small degrees just moving it back in small increments. Must have been a strong pencil!

If you need to set quite extreme toe-in to avoid a bass node, maybe the problem is also coming from the wall behind the listening position? You can often find this by just walking around the perimeters of the room whilst playing, keeping your ear close to the walls.

Don't forget to try changing your listening position too, if you have that flexibility. That can make just as much difference

As an aside, IIRC Martin Colloms reviewed the SF Electa Amator (which he liked very much, as do I) and had them positioned much as you had. I remember at the time, this was many years ago, being surprised at how much toe-in he was using.

As you said, every small change requires a recalibration. Sounds like you are heading in the right direction