Amplifier burn in time

[Venere]

What is general opinion on how long it should take for a brand new amplifier to sound its best? Is burn in time even a real consideration or do amps sound their best even when new? Lastly, if you have gone through this experience please describe the sound of new vs burned in amps. I just got new amp and curious if the sound is likely to change or if what i hear now is the final product. Only about 10 hours on it so far. Thanks for the feedback ( pardon the pun) guys.

[62caddy]

There are many opinions on the subject but mine is that if the device is properly designed to begin with, it should perform equally well on day 1 as on day 1001.

I would only add that most tube products should probably be on for a good half hour before fully stabilized for critical testing and so forth.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by 62caddy

There are many opinions on the subject but mine is that if the device is properly designed to begin with, it should perform equally well on day 1 as on day 1001. I would only add that most tube products should probably be on for a good half hour before fully stabilized for critical testing and so forth.

I agree that there's many opinions on the subject. But I will say this...capacitors will take a bit of run time to polarize 100%.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by 62caddy

There are many opinions on the subject but mine is that if the device is properly designed to begin with, it should perform equally well on day 1 as on day 1001.

I would only add that most tube products should probably be on for a good half hour before fully stabilized for critical testing and so forth.

Eric.......I have a different view. Being a well designed component is not the same topic as break-in of a component. I have had some components that had little to no tonal shift from day one, and I have had components that had obvious tonal shifts from day one through 100 or more hours of use. A good example of tonal shift during a break-in period was my MC352. I purchased it new from Audio Classics as a replacement for a MC275 I was using in my living room system. Once installed and energized for a couple of days I was completely unimpressed with its sound, so much so I called Mike Sastra at Audio Classics to let him know I was unhappy. Mike told me it is quiet common for some solid state amplifiers to require 50 to 100 hours of use before arriving at their permanent voice. I took Mike's advice and sure enough at about 60 hours the amplifier began to open up. By this I mean the bass extension grew deeper and more robust, the edginess of the upper midrange began to smooth into a more harmonious relationship with the lower midrange and highs became more airy with greater shimmer in the metalic sounds of cymbals. As my concerns diminished and additional hours were logged on the MC352 the amplifier blossomed into a sound that was rich, textured, deep, without any area of the frequency range drawing special attention. After 100+ hours the amplifier settled into its permanent voice with no further changes noted.

My MC452 went through the exact same break-in performance. I could not spend more than 30 minutes listening to the amp during the first two days. Day three showed improvement and so did day four. By the end of day five I could sit and listen to the MC452 for hours at a time with no hint of audible irritation or listener fatigue. After 120 hours the amplifier was in full bloom. It isn't a case of me being unaccustomed to a new sound and needing to become acclimated. I don't consider myself to be a Golden Ear listener but I do consider myself to be a discerning and seasoned listener who has over four decades of high-end audio experience to draw upon. The two amps mentioned both swung over a period of time from being almost irritating to listen to for several days into satisfyingly enjoyable sounding amplifiers after a period of time. Say what you will but I call that break-in.

On the other end of the break-in spectrum my pair of MC601's had almost no tonal shift from day one to their present hours that exceed just over 2000 hours. Right out of the box these two amplifiers were astonishing, no midrange glare, full rich deep and authoritative bass, and very musical. I did notice after about 60 hours a slight improvement in the air between instruments and voices. That was about the full extent of the MC601's break-in. It was quite a contrast from the MC352 and the MC452.

I am not an electronic engineer, so I have no facts, figures, or graphs I can toss into the conversation for solid support of my opinions, but I have clearly experienced the phenomenon of audio component break-in. I think it has much to do with the various hard parts, capacitors, resistors, transistors, diodes, and other parts settling at the molecular level as electrons flow through them and temperatures rise and fall from daily use. I believe these hard parts settle internally relatively quick and the variability of their rated tolerances become more stable and consistent. It is my opinion that once the internal hard parts cook for awhile they become permanently set at a point that may or may not be slightly different than when they are freshly manufactured but not in service yet.

Your comment about tube amplifiers needing a 30 minute warm up to sound their best essentially confirms what break-in is, even if you think it only requires 30 minutes. The internal parts come up to temperature, settle at their values, and deliver a more coherent and cohesive audio performance. To me, that is what break-in is all about. Of course, as with all things audio related, opinions will vary.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Eric.......I have a different view. Being a well designed component is not the same topic as break-in of a component. I have had some components that had little to no tonal shift from day one, and I have had components that had obvious tonal shifts from day one through 100 or more hours of use. A good example of tonal shift during a break-in period was my MC352. I purchased it new from Audio Classics as a replacement for a MC275 I was using in my living room system. Once installed and energized for a couple of days I was completely unimpressed with its sound, so much so I called Mike Sastra at Audio Classics to let him know I was unhappy. Mike told me it is quiet common for some solid state amplifiers to require 50 to 100 hours of use before arriving at their permanent voice. I took Mike's advice and sure enough at about 60 hours the amplifier began to open up. By this I mean the bass extension grew deeper and more robust, the edginess of the upper midrange began to smooth into a more harmonious relationship with the lower midrange and highs became more airy with greater shimmer in the metalic sounds of cymbals. As my concerns diminished and additional hours were logged on the MC352 the amplifier blossomed into a sound that was rich, textured, deep, without any area of the frequency range drawing special attention. After 100+ hours the amplifier settled into its permanent voice with no further changes noted. My MC452 went through the exact same break-in performance. I could not spend more than 30 minutes listening to the amp during the first two days. Day three showed improvement and so did day four. By the end of day five I could sit and listen to the MC452 for hours at a time with no hint of audible irritation or listener fatigue. After 120 hours the amplifier was in full bloom. It isn't a case of me being unaccustomed to a new sound and needing to become acclimated. I don't consider myself to be a Golden Ear listener but I do consider myself to be a discerning and seasoned listener who has over four decades of high-end audio experience to draw upon. The two amps mentioned both swung over a period of time from being almost irritating to listen to for several days into satisfyingly enjoyable sounding amplifiers after a period of time. Say what you will but I call that break-in. On the other end of the break-in spectrum my pair of MC601's had almost no tonal shift from day one to their present hours that exceed just over 2000 hours. Right out of the box these two amplifiers were astonishing, no midrange glare, full rich deep and authoritative bass, and very musical. I did notice after about 60 hours a slight improvement in the air between instruments and voices. That was about the full extent of the MC601's break-in. It was quite a contrast from the MC352 and the MC452. I am not an electronic engineer, so I have no facts, figures, or graphs I can toss into the conversation for solid support of my opinions, but I have clearly experienced the phenomenon of audio component break-in. I think it has much to do with the various hard parts, capacitors, resistors, transistors, diodes, and other parts settling at the molecular level as electrons flow through them and temperatures rise and fall from daily use. I believe these hard parts settle internally relatively quick and the variability of their rated tolerances become more stable and consistent. It is my opinion that once the internal hard parts cook for awhile they become permanently set at a point that may or may not be slightly different than when they are freshly manufactured but not in service yet. Your comment about tube amplifiers needing a 30 minute warm up to sound their best essentially confirms what break-in is, even if you think it only requires 30 minutes. The internal parts come up to temperature, settle at their values, and deliver a more coherent and cohesive audio performance. To me, that is what break-in is all about. Of course, as with all things audio related, opinions will vary.

Good post!

[Venere]

Thanks for the responses. My experience over the first few days mirrors JDandy's comments. Hard to listen too. Almost too much in your face detail. A bit of an edge to the midtange. Not too happy so far. Hoping that things get better with more hours on the amp over the next few days. We shall see.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Venere

Thanks for the responses. My experience over the first few days mirrors JDandy's comments. Hard to listen too. Almost too much in your face detail. A bit of an edge to the midtange. Not too happy so far. Hoping that things get better with more hours on the amp over the next few days. We shall see.

Venere.......My approach to amplifier and other audio component break-in is to play the gear continuously 24/7 for a minimum of 100 hours. I played my Esoteric K-03 for 300 continuous hours. Five straight days will give you 120 hours of break-in. You don't have to blast the gear but I subscribe to playing the gear at different volume levels during the break-in period. Some folks prefer not to leave their gear energized when not at home or while sleeping. That certainly can add additional time to the break-in period. I don't have any issue with leaving gear powered, so for me break-in goes by relatively quick.

[Cohibaman]

...speakers on the other hand, burn baby burn!

[GaryProtein]

Originally Posted by Cohibaman

...speakers on the other hand, burn baby burn!

REALLY???

How many cycles do you think it takes to get a driver moving to its prime??1000 cycles, 10,000 cycles, 100,000 cycles, ONE MILLION cycles???

Lets say it takes ONE MILLION cycles. (Which I really doubt, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt on this.)

At 20 Hz, that occurs in less than 14 HOURS.

At 20kHz, it happens in 50 SECONDS.

So, to break in a speaker, play it LOUD for the first day or two you own it.

[Cohibaman]

Exactly! Speaker should be broken in within a few days. Did I miss something?