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Old 04-04-2020, 03:07 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Default Wilson Master Chronosonic vs Thor

My Thor is about 9 years old. It is in excellent shape working perfectly. My Watchdog crossover has gone bad and is being replaced. I ran into this situation once before with my Genesis II when I thought my mids might be going bad after about 10 years. I spoke with Arnie Nudell about it and the cost was 25,000 to re-work the mids. I thought "I'm going to be going into the second decade with that servo sub woofer, nope, I'm going to get a new system."

While not exactly analogs my XVX is 3 months old. I'll have a new Watch Controller. The time has come to either get a new Thor or a MC sub, Galaxy Grey, of course. Lie will be horizontal.

The price and cosmetic differences being inconsequential, which is my better choice? To me it's a trade off. The Thor may be a little slower but may be more rugged and a higher sensitivity by 2 dB. Can the MC match the Thor in sheer power and really low frequency output?

If so I would much prefer the MC. Does anybody have a thought? I will not be able to demo. The MC weighs in at 612 compared to Thor at 412. Whatever I choose won't be returning.

Although not on topic I note the XLF is no longer on the Wilson website. IMO, XLF discontinued. My dealer now has an XVX on display. Also an XLF that was traded in for one. He says the bass of the XVX more powerful and greatly superior to XLF, even though XLF is much larger speaker. I was on phone with him for about an hour about the MC, bass was topic. I haven't been in the showroom for a long time so we had a long catchup conversation. He is thrilled to have an XVX and XLF side by side, also an ALexx. I was the ice breaker. They are selling a lot of Wilsons up and down the line now. I'm thrilled for them. They are a no frills very hard working bunch of professionals. Wonderful to work with. If I had one piece of advice is to find a good dealer. My dealer uses Mac with his Wilsons.

Last edited by Charles; 04-04-2020 at 10:48 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2020, 07:07 PM
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metaphacts metaphacts is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
My Thor is about 9 years old. It is in excellent shape working perfectly. My Watchdog crossover has gone bad and is being replaced. I ran into this situation once before with my Genesis II when I thought my mids might be going bad after about 10 years. I spoke with Arnie Nudell about it and the cost was 25,000 to re-work the mids. I thought "I'm going to be going into the second decade with that servo sub woofer, nope, I'm going to get a new system."

While not exactly analogs my XVX is 3 months old. I'll have a new Watch Controller. The time has come to either get a new Thor or a MC sub, Galaxy Grey, of course. Lie will be horizontal.

The price and cosmetic differences being inconsequential, which is my better choice? To me it's a trade off. The Thor may be a little slower but may be more rugged and a higher sensitivity by 2 dB. Can the MC match the Thor in sheer power and really low frequency output?

If so I would much prefer the MC. Does anybody have a thought? I will not be able to demo. The MC weighs in at 612 compared to Thor at 412. Whatever I choose won't be returning.

Although not on topic I note the XLF is no longer on the Wilson website. IMO, XLF discontinued. My dealer now has an XVX on display. Also an XLF that was traded in for one. He says the bass of the XVX more powerful and greatly superior to XLF, even though XLF is much larger speaker. I was on phone with him for about an hour about the MC, bass was topic. I haven't been in the showroom for a long time so we had a long catchup conversation. He is thrilled to have an XVX and XLF side by side, also an ALexx. I was the ice breaker. They are selling a lot of Wilsons up and down the line now. I'm thrilled for them. They are a no frills very hard working bunch of professionals. Wonderful to work with. If I had one piece of advice is to find a good dealer. My dealer uses Mac with his Wilsons.


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Old 04-06-2020, 12:33 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Thank you Bill. I am trying to find out if I am eligible as an XVX owner to purchase a MC sub. I hope that I am. But if not I will be completely satisfied with a new Thor. I want my XVX and associated sub to age at the same time. Getting the new crossover and paring it with a 9 year old sub while ok is not ideal. I really like the 15" drivers and cosmetics are secondary. My dealer is calling today. I hope XVX owners will be eligible for a MC but would not want an Audio Subsonic. I think as a stereo pair and in a more elegant room (mine is a mancave) a Subsonic makes more sense. So it's a Thor vs MC for me

Last edited by Charles; 04-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:05 PM
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metaphacts metaphacts is offline
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Thank you Bill. I am trying to find out if I am eligible as an XVX owner to purchase a MC sub. I hope that I am. But if not I will be completely satisfied with a new Thor. I want my XVX and associated sub to age at the same time. Getting the new crossover and paring it with a 9 year old sub while ok is not ideal. I really like the 15" drivers and cosmetics are secondary. My dealer is calling today. I hope XVX owners will be eligible for a MC but would not want an Audio Subsonic. I think as a stereo pair and in a more elegant room (mine is a mancave) a Subsonic makes more sense. So it's a Thor vs MC for me
Charles, Dave created the Master Subsonic to best match the woofers in the WAMM and to go lower more linearly than Thor. It was a substantial improvement in the Music Room when Dave installed the first Master Subsonics.

I believe either a Subsonic or a Master Subsonic would be the ideal match to XVX as well. The difference between Subsonic and Master Subsonic is internal bracing and metalwork. (Thor's bracing is similar to Subsonic's, though the slightly smaller width and depth dimensions of Subsonic allow the bracing to better stiffen the cabinet.) While the metalwork has a different finish on Master Subsonic than on Subsonic, it serves the same purpose on both - to add mass to and further stiffen the front baffle. Either would be a nice step up from the Thor but I can certainly understand your desire to go to the Master Subsonic.
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Old 04-06-2020, 07:00 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Bill, unfortunately the MC is available only with WAMM. So it's Thor vs Subsonic. The order for Thor has been placed but I might reconsider. Thanks for the input.

Best

Charles
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Old 04-06-2020, 07:16 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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So based on what you have said it's possible I will order a Subsonic. I just don't see how 3 12's can equal 2 15's. If there is a trade off I want the greater output because I have a mono setup and am totally happy with my integration with Thor. However, if Subsonic is equal to Thor in "grunt" and better than Thor in quickness/linearity I prefer Subsonic. But if trade off I prefer Thor.

Charles

p.s Thank you Bill so much for helping me make an informed decision.

Last edited by Charles; 04-06-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 04-06-2020, 07:47 PM
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2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Charles, I'm really confused. You ordered another Thor, or you ordered a Subsonic (you said your ordered a Thor but you already have one)? And you might reconsider after the order is placed? Why not get every answer satisfied before placing the order?

It definitely makes sense that 3 12's can equal 2 15's and be quicker.
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:40 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Charles, I'm really confused. You ordered another Thor, or you ordered a Subsonic (you said your ordered a Thor but you already have one)? And you might reconsider after the order is placed? Why not get every answer satisfied before placing the order?

It definitely makes sense that 3 12's can equal 2 15's and be quicker.
I'm sorry for the confusion. Can you explain how 3 12's can be better than 2 15's? I got the questions answered I thought but Bill has a different opinion and I respect his opinion. Sometimes it's very difficult to get every answer satisfied. My Thor is 9 years old. I simply want a new Thor with new woofers or a better sub woofer, i.e. the Subsonic. My configuration is mono. I listen to a lot of movies. Some of them can require 800-900 watts. I have no doubt the Subsonic as a stereo pair is better than 2 Thors but I'm mono and the Thor may be more powerful. So this is difficult which is why I put the question out. But Bill says the Subsonic is superior to Thor, period. If so I want Subsonic. I had thought MC with its better bracing might give me a little more edge. It's a question of what sub is best for my application and what options I had. I really hadn't given much thought to Subsonic until I read Bill's post, which I really appreciated. I don't want to make a mistake. So everything is on hold until I get this sorted out.

I will have a new crossover and obviously a new XVX. I simply want a new Thor also or, a Subsonic so that the speaker system can age together. It's that simple. The cabinet size/volume for Subsonic is 4% larger than Thor cabinet. I don't see how therefore 3 12's can match low end grunt of 2 15's but if they can I prefer the Subsonic. I want the best sub for my setup, period.

Last edited by Charles; 04-06-2020 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:29 PM
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I thought 3x12 would be more area than 2x15, but I was wrong. So you definitely have a point. I guess it then becomes a matter of the materials, bracing, and tuning.

3x12 would tend to be a bit faster in transients though.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:34 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
Intuitively, 3 12" woofers have more surface area than 2 15" and a 12" woofer would seem to be less challenging to control.... yielding more and better (more defined) bass. I know nothing about the products under consideration other than this, but you asked how could it be.
No, 2 15's have about a little over 10% more surface area than 3 12's and more excursion. The 15" driver was developed after the 12" which is the same as on the Watchdog sub. No question the Subsonic will be faster but the Thor is no slouch in speed and I will be running LP @ 30 HZ so speed while desirable is not everything. I need maximum low frequency output. I really like my Thor. I'm torn at this point waiting to hear from Bill if he has anything more to add.
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