MSB: Two new DACs announced

[SuperD]

Originally Posted by PHC1

What would you like to know?

If I was going to spend that amount on a Dac, it is nice to know that I can upgrade clocks, balanced or unbalanced cable connections, and be capable of quick development of new modules for new tech. They had an MQA module pretty quickly if I remember. Like Ken said, it is the SOTA in terms of SQ and unlike DCS, which IMO is still one of the finest Dacs, can have true hardware upgrades and not just firmware. It seems trickle-down tech from the Select II is making its way to more affordable products for a bigger market. Does the $650k WAMM make sense? I bet it does to the fortunate few that own them but I love that future Wilson's will possess their technology. Re-reading my post...I apologize if it came off snarky, I didn't mean it that way.

Dave

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

If I was going to spend that amount on a Dac, it is nice to know that I can upgrade clocks, balanced or unbalanced cable connections, and be capable of quick development of new modules for new tech. They had an MQA module pretty quickly if I remember. Like Ken said, it is the SOTA in terms of SQ and unlike DCS, which IMO is still one of the finest Dacs, can have true hardware upgrades and not just firmware. It seems trickle-down tech from the Select II is making its way to more affordable products for a bigger market. Does the $650k WAMM make sense? I bet it does to the fortunate few that own them but I love that future Wilson's will possess their technology. Re-reading my post...I apologize if it came off snarky, I didn't mean it that way.

Dave

Dave, no apologies needed, I didn't take it that way. The modular approach is nice and as long as it is not used by the manufacturer as yet another lure which turns out to be false promises and a new product offering within a few years time (almost unavoidable for obvious profitability reasons) it does give a sense of comfort. Of course those spending $90K on a DAC probably need none of the comfort offered by such a promise.

[SuperD]

I never considered MSB until I read about the original Select. I also learned the hard way not to include a Dac in your spinner. For me to upgrade, I need a whole new box. When I bought the Esoteric, I was just beginning my journey to the high-end and If I knew then what I do now, I would have bought the grandioso from Ivan and have a stand-alone dac that could be upgraded in time. Im guessing the lifespan, in terms of SOTA tech, will surpass the competition due to the modular design and upgradability and not force us to buy new boxes. It is the reason I looked into MSB, plus I like Vince Galbo with their company. I wonder how many have sold their dacs for an MQA compatible dac? Good talkin with you Serge

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

I never considered MSB until I read about the original Select. I also learned the hard way not to include a Dac in your spinner. For me to upgrade, I need a whole new box. When I bought the Esoteric, I was just beginning my journey to the high-end and If I knew then what I do now, I would have bought the grandioso from Ivan and have a stand-alone dac that could be upgraded in time. Im guessing the lifespan, in terms of SOTA tech, will surpass the competition due to the modular design and upgradability and not force us to buy new boxes. It is the reason I looked into MSB, plus I like Vince Galbo with their company. I wonder how many have sold their dacs for an MQA compatible dac? Good talkin with you Serge

I get the whole allure of the newest and the greatest, it is a big part of this hobby. Manufacturers depend on it as do dealers. Some technology progress does offer an irresistible and compelling argument to upgrade and scratch that new gear itch but... On the other side of the equation, I have a few friends that have spent a tremendous amount of effort to build their systems going all the way back to the 90's. I helped my friend setup his system then and he has not changed a single thing since! The only effort he ever put in was in acoustic treatments and perfect setup of his Proac speakers. Tweaking the system and positioning and moving the speakers methodically a fraction of an inch at a time and countless hours of listening to his setup and taking notes. Imagine that no upgrades in 20 years...

When I come over to visit and we spin some vinyl or listen to some CD/XRCD on his system, it is still as holographic, vivid, captivating and engaging as it was over 20 years ago. He has zero desire to upgrade. In fact when his Krell Transport finally quit, he hunted down a laser assembly and we replaced it and it is good to go for another 20 years. Had the Krell amp recapped about 3 years ago. Reconed his Proacs. Like new.

He amassed an incredible collection of music in the last 20 years, stuff that is next to impossible to find these days on vinyl and even CD without spending a penny on upgrades.

His system was not the most expensive at that time but did consist of high quality components. Proac speakers, Krell Transport, Krell DAC, Krell KSA series amp.

Last year I finally convinced him to go audition the new Burmester line our local dealer picked up. Guess what, he said to his ears it was completely non engaging to him.... I could not disagree, it sounded sterile, lean and over analytical without any emotions coming through. We came back to his house and listened some more to his system with great satisfaction and he turned to me and said, until this gear can no longer can be fixed, I have no desire to upgrade. How does one argue with that?

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Ken, for the same reason you see the "discontinued" and "new" dacs on their page. Isn't it obvious? If you were selling audio gear, would you want to sell modules to upgrade the DACs from a few years ago or a brand new DAC from $10k to $90k every few years?

How long would you stay in business selling modules to keep your products fresh? Why are there so many new products coming to the market every year if the one from last year was the "reference grade" item?

It is not just audio but everything around us that has to be "obsolete" to keep the profits flowing.

Serge,

MSB’s previous DACs were not fully modular but the Select II and Reference are. R2R Ladder DAC Modules, Preamp Module, Input Modules and Output Modules. MSB can do just fine selling new modules when they are updated. The modules are very expensive.

I love Esoteric but you have to buy a new unit every time you want to upgrade. Luckily we have the best Esoteric dealer in the world here in Ivan and he makes the upgrade process as inexpensive and seamless as possible.

Ken

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

I never considered MSB until I read about the original Select. I also learned the hard way not to include a Dac in your spinner. For me to upgrade, I need a whole new box. When I bought the Esoteric, I was just beginning my journey to the high-end and If I knew then what I do now, I would have bought the grandioso from Ivan and have a stand-alone dac that could be upgraded in time. Im guessing the lifespan, in terms of SOTA tech, will surpass the competition due to the modular design and upgradability and not force us to buy new boxes. It is the reason I looked into MSB, plus I like Vince Galbo with their company. I wonder how many have sold their dacs for an MQA compatible dac? Good talkin with you Serge

Hi Dave,

You have a wonderful system! I had the pleasure of hearing the Nagra HD system at RMAF with the Alexia II and it was mighty impressive. One of my favorite rooms at RMAF.

Ken

[For The Love of Music]

I just skimmed this and responding, call me ignorant or whatever or maybe create additional dialogue, anyway...

I think the modular approach that can be upgraded is a great option, but most likely it is short term (defined as less then 5 years). This means you may get updates during this time improving sound. In any sense, a better method or way will be found - evolution continues, and for that there is a price to pay.

In any sense, I am looking forward to hearing MSBs new options and curious on how these new units will really measure up.

[joey_v]

I think the modular concept just buys you time, in the end, a newer and better and simpler circuit (etc) will be available whereby the bandaid approach will no longer be the best approach.

[SuperD]

What new tech could not be handled by a new module? I would rather use a bandaid than lose the arm Joey[emoji16].The Ref Dac is in the same price category as my K-01X and G-01. I love my front end but the MSB is better IMO. More natural timbres, effortless sound, and weight on the notes.

[bodiezaffa]

Curious if the new entry level dac Discrete is an improvement over the old Analog Dac.

The Discrete dac has balanced output where the Analog has pseudo balanced....whatever that means.

I would think however the separate power supply available with the Analog dac is superior compared to Discrete which doesn’t have it.