802D2 vs 803D3 - back to back audition

[SMC23]

Great review Ray. It's one of the first thorough user reviews of the 802d3 I read. Congrats on your new speakers. Can't wait to get mine!

[GreginNH1]

Awesome review Ray - thank you.

The wait is long for sure. It's been two months now!

[rghanbari]

Originally Posted by SMC23

Great review Ray. It's one of the first thorough user reviews of the 802d3 I read. Congrats on your new speakers. Can't wait to get mine!

Thanks, but now I feel guilty for not putting more thought into it

Having (literally) slept on it over night, so additional thoughts:

• It is astonishing how similar the 802D3 and 803D3 are
  
  This was by far my biggest surprise yesterday. My audition of the 802 was glorious. I could have gone on to listen to it for several more hours without switching to any other speaker. When we switched to the 803s, I expected a notable step down. I was shocked how similar they were.
  
  If I were to do a blind audition separated by any amount of time, I'm not sure I could distinguish which speaker I'm listening to. The only "tell" I could pick up was in particularly challenging passages where the 803 seemed to cap out sooner (there may also be a hair less depth at the low end). To tell them apart, I would have to cheat and use source material I'm intimately familiar with, and critically listen to particularly sequences.
  
  The differences are very very small (far far smaller than I'm accustomed to in speakers that are part of the same family). Unless you have a larger room or prefer to push your speakers to very high levels (or both), the 803D3 is an astonishing speaker and tremendous value (game changer I think)
  
  It is unclear to me why B&W chose to deliver both the 802 and 803 in the new series. The price delta is relatively small (no fundamental difference except for size of cabinet and size of drivers), and so is performance. I am very curious to see how sales play out, and what they're able to do to clearly distinguish the 801s (802 may end being the odd guy out in this line, with stoopid money going 801, and value money going 803)
  
  
  
• 802D3s were the first speaker I've auditioned where I stopped listening to the speaker
  
  I was pretty focused for a critical audition, notebook in hand and ready to do a comprehensive critique. When the 802 fired up, I had nothing to say: it was just right. The balance was better than anything I could have critiqued or tweaked. Effortless and seamless across the full range. We could not push them (with content or volume) into a stressed zone (effortless).
  
  In my earlier write up on 803 vs 804, I compared the 803 to a tier 1 NBA player to the 804 being a tier college player. The 802 was like watching Stephen Curry: doing miraculous things, but being so smooth and effortless and matter of fact that you barely notice he's doing them.
  
  After 45-60 minutes of what was starting to become frustration at not being able to find anything to pick at, I switched gears and started to really listen to the music and (more tellingly) the mixing choices made by the producer and sound engineer. I learned so much about blending music to create a stage, even in this limited session. Particularly on older analog material, the art of balance and tone really came through.
  
  The choices the pros had made when recording the music were obvious. I felt like I was an apprentice in the studio, sitting at the soundboard as they tuned and crafted the final mix. There was nothing lacking and nothing hidden or overbearing. I can't wait to revisit my library with these new set of "eyes".
  
  
  
• 802D3s are lovely, but they look huge sitting next to the svelte 803D3s
  
  The aesthetics of the whole 800 series are taking a huge step forward with the D3s. To my eye, the 803D3 is in the sweet spot of audio performance and aesthetics. If you have (spousal) constraints on acceptability in a shared space, make sure you see them both side by side.
  
  
  
• You can't go wrong with either model
  
  I would be delighted and have no regrets with either speaker. There is no settling or compromise here. Bravo to the engineers at B&W for the work they've done.
  
  For me the decision came down to having a little more headroom with the 802s to tune and adjust in my new space. My situation is unique in that I'm closing on a new home in a couple weeks. An in house audition would be of limited value, since it will take many months to get to know the new space and build it out with other furnishings, etc.
  
  For a relatively small price delta, the 802s have that little extra to give me flexibility to go several different directions. With the bump in resale value, I'm comfortable paying the extra $$ (and dealing with the extra bulk) so I don't have worry about it.
  
  If I were settled into a space and knew it well, I would do an in home audition and then decide which speaker is best suited to the room.

[Vhiner]

Great review, Ray! I'm putting the 803D3's at the top of my audition list. One quick question for anyone: what's the ideal power rating for a an amp to mate with the 803's? I know what would theoretically work, but I wonder how much muscle they need to sound their absolute best.

[stock78]

Originally Posted by audiomania

I recently demo'd the B&W 802D3 along side the Magico S3. As a current owner of 803 D2's and also as someone who dreamed of one day getting the big brother 802's I had very high hopes and expectations of the new 802 D3 speakers going into the demo.

There were a few things that ultimately resulted in my purchase of the Magico S3's over the 802 D3's. As much as I hate to say it, the main factor in my decision was related to the build quality of the new 802 D3's which was a big surprise to me. But if I ignore the build quality component for a moment I felt the sound of the 802 D3 was not all that much different then the 803 D2 I own now. Sure, it filled the room more, had more bass but sounded very much the same everywhere else. I wouldn't call this a negative but at the end of the day, and after living with the 803 D2 for the past 4 years I guess I was looking for something that sounded less the same and more "accurate" for lack of a better word.

I also previously demo'd the 803 D3 and thought that speaker actually sounded better then the 802 D3. I walked away from the 803 D3 demo feeling far more impressed then I did when I walked away from the 802 D3 demo. Strange you say....I agree. There is something clearly special about the new 803 D3. If I wasn't in the market for a clear, several step upgrade from what I have now I would probably have gone home with the 803 D3 and been a very happy camper. But, in my case and with this purchase I was looking for my last speaker to take me to the grave.

Going back to the build quality issues I mentioned about the 802 D3. The first sign of disappointment was related to the sealing of the Midrange driver to the new Alum head casing it resides in. Upon close inspection, I could see areas around the driver itself that were missing sealant so there were " air gaps" that if I had a flash light on me I could have seen into the enclosure space behind the Midrange driver. I am referring to the area just outside of the polished ring where it meets the aluminium head.

Secondly, The Aluminium head itself which houses the Mid Range and Tweeter section didn't appear to be permanently attached to the lower half of the enclosure. By this I mean, if you grabbed a hold of the Aluminium head and gave it a little shake you could actually lift it off of the lower part of the enclosure. This was also visible while the speakers where being moved around into position where you could see the head rocking around freely. Now as I stated before, I do not own the 802 D2 speakers so I can't say if this is expected behaviour or not but needless to say I guess I always assumed that the head was permanently attached to the lower enclosure and not moving around like what I saw. If this is indeed expected behaviour then IMO its not something this potential customer could live with knowing.

So all in all I was disappointed with the 802 D3 and at this price point I feel there is ZERO room for errors in build quality and of course the sound itself also needs to knock me off my feet. Granted, $hit happens with any brand when it comes to manufacturing but that said "$hit" just can't happen when one is looking to spend almost $23K for a pair of speakers. One of the many problems when a company raises their product prices into a zone where the bigger fish swim is that they need to be even more fanatical about every aspect of their design if they want to compete at that level. In this case I feel B&W fell short of the mark.

Because of the above observations and in addition to feeling the competing product sounded better my money went to Magico instead of B&W.

After all the glowing comments and revieuws I made an appointment to listen to B&W 803D3.
All efforts were made to take everything out of it with a full stack of McIntosh including the mighty MC601, in a spacious room.

I was hoping for a positively surprise, but that didn't happen.

Bass: missed punch and attack and also some precision, already a dealbreaker for me.

Mids: dense and polished. Wanted that it had a more open presentation, details were to some degree more difficult to detect than it should at the price point of this speaker.

Heights: Yes, where is the tweeter?
Look at the frequency response of 802D3 (I think that 802D3 and 803D3 are broadly similar, especially in mids/heights) in the german magazine AUDIO of november. It looks if there is hardly any response above around 12000Hz!
Compare this with eg. Magico S1, S3, S5.

And this was obvious during the session. I found the heights reticent, soft, lifeless and boring.

Staging was good, remains between the speakers though.

Low volume listening: for most of the time I listen to my music softly without losing anything; around 2-5 on my ARC Ref 5SE out of 104 possible.
Low-level listening with 803D3 did cause the collapse of the stage and dynamics. Best results were with (somewhat) higher volumes.

Overall this speaker is more about macro-, than microdynamics.

Is this all more about the room and/or the electronics used rather than the speakers? I don't know, is possible, just listen for yourself and conclude.

Needless to say, B&W 803D3, in this setup/room did it not for me.
YMMV as always.

[Indytown]

Originally Posted by stock78

After all the glowing comments and revieuws I made an appointment to listen to B&W 803D3.
All efforts were made to take everything out of it with a full stack of McIntosh including the mighty MC601, in a spacious room.

I was hoping for a positively surprise, but that didn't happen.

Bass: missed punch and attack and also some precision, already a dealbreaker for me.

Mids: dense and polished. Wanted that it had a more open presentation, details were to some degree more difficult to detect than it should at the price point of this speaker.

Heights: Yes, where is the tweeter?
Look at the frequency response of 802D3 (I think that 802D3 and 803D3 are broadly similar, especially in mids/heights) in the german magazine AUDIO of november. It looks if there is hardly any response above around 12000Hz!
Compare this with eg. Magico S1, S3, S5.

And this was obvious during the session. I found the heights reticent, soft, lifeless and boring.

Staging was good, remains between the speakers though.

Low volume listening: for most of the time I listen to my music softly without losing anything; around 2-5 on my ARC Ref 5SE out of 104 possible.
Low-level listening with 803D3 did cause the collapse of the stage and dynamics. Best results were with (somewhat) higher volumes.

Overall this speaker is more about macro-, than microdynamics.

Is this all more about the room and/or the electronics used rather than the speakers? I don't know, is possible, just listen for yourself and conclude.

Needless to say, B&W 803D3, in this setup/room did it not for me.
YMMV as always.

How many hours on the speakers of continuous play time did the shop tell you.

I found the complete opposite when I heard the 803D3.

[stock78]

Originally Posted by Indytown

How many hours on the speakers of continuous play time did the shop tell you.

I found the complete opposite when I heard the 803D3.

They said the speakers were fully broken-in.

[brandonsweden]

Originally Posted by stock78

After all the glowing comments and revieuws I made an appointment to listen to B&W 803D3. All efforts were made to take everything out of it with a full stack of McIntosh including the mighty MC601, in a spacious room. I was hoping for a positively surprise, but that didn't happen. Bass: missed punch and attack and also some precision, already a dealbreaker for me. Mids: dense and polished. Wanted that it had a more open presentation, details were to some degree more difficult to detect than it should at the price point of this speaker. Heights: Yes, where is the tweeter? Look at the frequency response of 802D3 (I think that 802D3 and 803D3 are broadly similar, especially in mids/heights) in the german magazine AUDIO of november. It looks if there is hardly any response above around 12000Hz! Compare this with eg. Magico S1, S3, S5. And this was obvious during the session. I found the heights reticent, soft, lifeless and boring. Staging was good, remains between the speakers though. Low volume listening: for most of the time I listen to my music softly without losing anything; around 2-5 on my ARC Ref 5SE out of 104 possible. Low-level listening with 803D3 did cause the collapse of the stage and dynamics. Best results were with (somewhat) higher volumes. Overall this speaker is more about macro-, than microdynamics. Is this all more about the room and/or the electronics used rather than the speakers? I don't know, is possible, just listen for yourself and conclude. Needless to say, B&W 803D3, in this setup/room did it not for me. YMMV as always.

I have a totally different experience.

Bass: Tight, textured and definatley present. I listen to Hotel California (Eagles) from the album Hell Freezes Over and the drummers footpedal hitting the bass was lifelike, perfectly renderd with just the right amount of texture and "realness". The timing of the bass membrane started and stopped instantlly with great impact that gave clarity and rythm to the bass.

Mids: Open, natural, lifelike that made the speaker totally dissapear.

Highs: The best I've heard without fatigue with wonderfull decay.

Imageing: A area that hasn't been B&W's strongest in my opinion. With this series I just say wow! The speakers totally dissapear with a wast sound picture that starts way behind the speakers, stretching well outside each side of the speaker and if the record has it also present the listener with pin pointed sound around him/her. Everything that is happening can easlly be followed by the listener. (Speakers stood around 50-80cm from walls. Room around 6x4.5 meters).

I never tried low level listening so I can't comment on that. I listened to the B&W 803D3 with Classe Sigma pre-/amplifier and speaker cables from Audioquest (Oak).
Anyway, we hear different things. Maybe you just don't like how they sound or something was seriously wrong during your audition.

[GreginNH1]

As my retailer continues to remind me, despite the dozens of other speaker brands I audition, I always come back to B&W.

I guess you can engineer and design the snot out of any speaker but in the final analysis, is what pleases the human (your) ear that only matters!

[joey_v]

I'm just glad I got to hear both 802d2 and the 803d3 in the same room under same circumstances. I know for sure that the d3 is the better speaker without a shadow of a doubt.