The Sonic Role of a Preamplifier

[tima]

I'll take a guess that most systems successful with passive preamps have their gear between the speakers.

[cma29]

Originally Posted by tima

I'll take a guess that most systems successful with passive preamps have their gear between the speakers.

Right on, Tim. My system has the gear between the speakers.

[Solartiger]

Very interesting subject. When I started to build my current system, I started with the new CD player, the Burmester 089. The 089 has balanced analog input and variable output so it can be connected directly to a power amp and allows to switch input sources.

I though that bypassing the pre amp would improve the sound as the pre amp was „switch sources and volume control“ to me. A couple weeks later I got a visit from my dealer and he dropped an 088 pre amp with the words „try it“.

It was a huge difference. With the pre amp, the sound was so much better.

Best regards
Ecki

[trponhunter]

Yes that makes sense - most likely the Burmeister CD player has analog outputs which aren't nearly as good as the analog output capability of the preamplifier

[BuffaloBill]

The primary role of a pre-amp is to switch between sources and control volume without adding distortion or noise.

[kaarmstrong]

When I compare running directly from the PS Audio DS DAC to my ampifiers vs running thru the PS Audio BHK preamp. Night and day better with the preamp. More musical, more texture to the sound, more enjoyable.

[gadawg]

Whenever I’ve tried to run without a preamp in the past I notice what seems like a tad more transparency but totally lacking in dynamics and solid bottom end output. Totally prefer system with an active preamp but that’s just me.

George

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBill

The primary role of a pre-amp is to switch between sources and control volume without adding distortion or noise.

Yes, and we could add that the preamp should not add neither loose any information of the signal. But saying this does not say much imho about the relative importance and role of the preamp in the system. It implies also that if you have only a digital source which has variable outputs, then you do not need any preamp ?

Imho the preamp is the soul of the electronic chain, just after the source. Its influence on the final result imho is much higher than the one of power amps. At the time I had the Wilson Audio WP8's, which are supposed to be a difficult load, I used up to 4 preamps in my main system and 5 very different power amps. The differences in sound were much higher when switching preamps with a single power amp than when doing the opposite ie switching power amps with the same preamp.
With very difficult to drive speakers, the major role will be played by the power amp. It is a bit like that with my Rega RS10 speakers which are pretty difficult to drive.
With the modern trend in hifi of huge power amps, the speakers makers do not often focus on easy load, stable impedance and so on. The filters are often pure energy suckers when it comes to "high end" speakers. So you need very powerful amps. But still, as long as you give them enough power, most often the differences in sound won't be huge with various high quality power amps.
And with most speakers on the market ( it is even more true with high eff ones), the preamp will really be the heart of it.

If you compare with photography, I would almost say that the sensor, its nature and quality of building, is the source. Nowadays most full size sensors are very close to each other no matter the brand.
The speakers are the lens. That makes the biggest difference in the final result. The power amp would be the size of the sensor and it is in direct relation with the lens used.
And the preamp would be your action in the M mode of the settings or the software that calculates the exposure and focus in the P mode. Ultimately, this action will give very different images of the same scene and will have a predominant role.

Imho the preamp sets the focus and exposure. It can make the same system sound average or fabulous.

On my main speakers, you can use Set amps of 8 watts costing 3000 euros, or a vintage McIntosh SS amp like the MC2100, or the mighty MC2301's or 1.2K costing 30000 euros and you won't hear a big difference. This is also the case with my Audio Note speakers.
I use 2 very different TT's. With 3 different carts. Of course you can hear differences in sound for each cart and each TT and arms but fundamentally, you are not changing so much the sound of the system.
But the change of the preamp and phono preamp makes a huge difference in sound.
With various preamps, the tone, the image, the weight of the notes, the frequency response, EVERYTHING in the sound changes a lot.

Sorry for this long post but imho the role of the preamp in the system is so important that I could not express myself with less words.

[bart]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Yes, and we could add that the preamp should not add neither loose any information of the signal. But saying this does not say much imho about the relative importance and role of the preamp in the system. It implies also that if you have only a digital source which has variable outputs, then you do not need any preamp ?

Imho the preamp is the soul of the electronic chain, just after the source. Its influence on the final result imho is much higher than the one of power amps. At the time I had the Wilson Audio WP8's, which are supposed to be a difficult load, I used up to 4 preamps in my main system and 5 very different power amps. The differences in sound were much higher when switching preamps with a single power amp than when doing the opposite ie switching power amps with the same preamp.
With very difficult to drive speakers, the major role will be played by the power amp. It is a bit like that with my Rega RS10 speakers which are pretty difficult to drive.
With the modern trend in hifi of huge power amps, the speakers makers do not often focus on easy load, stable impedance and so on. The filters are often pure energy suckers when it comes to "high end" speakers. So you need very powerful amps. But still, as long as you give them enough power, most often the differences in sound won't be huge with various high quality power amps.
And with most speakers on the market ( it is even more true with high eff ones), the preamp will really be the heart of it.

If you compare with photography, I would almost say that the sensor, its nature and quality of building, is the source. Nowadays most full size sensors are very close to each other no matter the brand.
The speakers are the lens. That makes the biggest difference in the final result. The power amp would be the size of the sensor and it is in direct relation with the lens used.
And the preamp would be your action in the M mode of the settings or the software that calculates the exposure and focus in the P mode. Ultimately, this action will give very different images of the same scene and will have a predominant role.

Imho the preamp sets the focus and exposure. It can make the same system sound average or fabulous.

On my main speakers, you can use Set amps of 8 watts costing 3000 euros, or a vintage McIntosh SS amp like the MC2100, or the mighty MC2301's or 1.2K costing 30000 euros and you won't hear a big difference. This is also the case with my Audio Note speakers.
I use 2 very different TT's. With 3 different carts. Of course you can hear differences in sound for each cart and each TT and arms but fundamentally, you are not changing so much the sound of the system.
But the change of the preamp and phono preamp makes a huge difference in sound.
With various preamps, the tone, the image, the weight of the notes, the frequency response, EVERYTHING in the sound changes a lot.

Sorry for this long post but imho the role of the preamp in the system is so important that I could not express myself with less words.

Good post Jérôme!

[Jerome W]

Thanks Bart !